ITH Poker Forum

[Damien]

I know you all will be very surprised to hear this, but I fear that I misplayed this hand . I'm assuming that I'm betting here, but how much? I certainly want to protect my hand from being drawn out on, but I also want to get maximum value. Easy push? (pushing here is almost exactly a pot size bet)

Full Tilt Poker $2 + $0.25 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t40/t80 Blinds - 7 players - View hand 666530
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

BTN: t1065 M = 8.88
SB: t2775 M = 23.12
Hero (BB): t1280 M = 10.67
UTG: t2720 M = 22.67
UTG+1: t1670 M = 13.92
MP: t6885 M = 57.38
CO: t1385 M = 11.54

Pre Flop: (t120) Hero is BB with 5 : J :
2 folds, MP calls t80, CO calls t80, 2 folds, Hero checks

Flop: (t280) J : 4 : 3 : (3 players)
Hero bets t240, MP calls t240, CO calls t240

Turn: (t1000) J : (3 players)
Hero?

[leofric]

I'd happily shove this - might get a call from someone with a lower PP not believing you have the J.

[ciaran]

I check the flop. As played, shove the turn, though if you get called it's mostly going to be by a draw, boat, or a better J.

[Damien]

I check the flop. As played, shove the turn, though if you get called it's mostly going to be by a draw, boat, or a better J.

Interesting. Are you check/calling or check/folding or check/raising?

[ciaran]

I check the flop. As played, shove the turn, though if you get called it's mostly going to be by a draw, boat, or a better J.

Interesting. Are you check/calling or check/folding or check/raising?

Readless, it's a c/f, though you could make an argument for check-calling with a read. Check-raising seems like it would be lighting money on fire.

[Damien]

Hmmm... hitting top pair with my somewhat small stack and check/folding is a little too weak for me (again, at the micro level). Honestly, I'm really not comfortable with any of the lines here that begin with a check... hence the bet. I'm sure i will have to adjust my gameplay if/when I decide to move up.

[ciaran]

Hmmm... hitting top pair with my somewhat small stack and check/folding is a little too weak for me (again, at the micro level). Honestly, I'm really not comfortable with any of the lines here that begin with a check... hence the bet. I'm sure i will have to adjust my gameplay if/when I decide to move up.

You're a dog to almost any range that will call a bet. You're behind 7-3 to other Js, and only ahead 5-4 to a club draw. Very few turn cards will better define the situation, basically none positively. I mean not even hitting the J is all that exciting under the circumstances.

[cowboyinexile]

Readless, it's a c/f, though you could make an argument for check-calling with a read. Check-raising seems like it would be lighting money on fire.

You need to play against more idiots. Against a logical opponent, OP's trips gave someone 4's full and his value bet with a hand that can only beat a bluff turns into a wet dream.

I think your line is correct at higher levels, but in a $2 game, its +EV to bet trips unless the board is something like

I'd bet smaller on the flop-your hand is marginal so you want to see where you stand. Something in the t120-150 range should let you know where you stand. Two callers on a double suited board with a possible draw-your opponent ranges are still pretty wide.

The turn is a good card for you-you turned trips and your kicker could have potentially killed river outs for someone drawing. I'd get my money in here-with potential draws, if someone else had a dominated hand, they should have put you to the test on the flop. If they have a draw, make them pay. If they had 4's and filled to your trips, well good hand sir. You lost $2 and will make it back in a bit.

[chrisjp]

I normally c/f this at higher limits. I use to bet it but found it's a losing play. I could easily believe this is a bet at the micros. Given the way it has played I push the turn too.

Chris

[ciaran]

Readless, it's a c/f, though you could make an argument for check-calling with a read. Check-raising seems like it would be lighting money on fire.

You need to play against more idiots. Against a logical opponent, OP's trips gave someone 4's full and his value bet with a hand that can only beat a bluff turns into a wet dream.

I think your line is correct at higher levels, but in a $2 game, its +EV to bet trips unless the board is something like

I'd bet smaller on the flop-your hand is marginal so you want to see where you stand. Something in the t120-150 range should let you know where you stand. Two callers on a double suited board with a possible draw-your opponent ranges are still pretty wide.

The turn is a good card for you-you turned trips and your kicker could have potentially killed river outs for someone drawing. I'd get my money in here-with potential draws, if someone else had a dominated hand, they should have put you to the test on the flop. If they have a draw, make them pay. If they had 4's and filled to your trips, well good hand sir. You lost $2 and will make it back in a bit.

To be clear, I'm on board with the turn shove (see my first response), there's not much choice left at that point. I think flop is a c/f because you're behind (or not far enough ahead ICM-wise) reasonable ranges that will call and if you get flatted you're going to be in trouble on most any turn, including this best case where you're committed to putting the rest of your chips in with your opponents able to play perfectly.