ITH Poker Forum

[Grimshade]

How has such a low level game become such a challenge? I feels like every game i'm playing with 8 other dudes all folding everything but the nuts. I think everyone I've played in this week has gone over an hour and a half. It does make it easier to pick out the weak players, but serously it almost feels like i'm playing low-limit Hold'em. This isn't really a rant I just want to know if anyone else has noticed this?

[trej]

Im noticing the same thing at the $10 sngs! Lots of good players..compared to bodog and some other sites anyway

[Zjak]

Learn to play the turbo's, these sng's are really the tits for $/hr and are ideal to multitable. The low buyin ones are super easy to beat, you could get as high as 35% ROI I'm sure.

Cheers,
Zjak

[loyo1]

Here is my theory (keep in mind I haven't had enough coffee yet this AM):

I think a lot of the Stars players at the low buyin regular SNG's have read some strategy articles, and grasped the part of the recommendations that says "play tight in the early levels." A few don't tighten up enough, and the occasional maniac still shows up, but sometimes it's mostly nine people folding hands for the first 30-40 minutes, with an occasional contested pot.

Finally, at the 30 minute mark, blinds hit 50/100, and players begin to realize they need to start opening up their game. But how much? What should you open first in from CO vs UTG? Etc, etc. This is the main learning curve for SNG's, and the players will be at various points on the curve. At the lower buyins, it's mostly early in the curve. Sometimes real early.

The point is, you don't need to be an expert yourself---just a little further along the curve than the others at the table.

One of the main reasons for a beginner to play the regulars used to be the fact that play was so bad, you could pretty much count on 2 or 3 busting out by the end of the second level----and the bustouts would continue until you could sometimes "fold" your way into the money. If those conditions no longer exist, why not play the turbos?

In a turbo at Stars, the blinds hit the 50/100 mark at the end of 15 minutes. If you are willing to work on your late game strategy adjustments and get yourself a bit further along the learning curve than the typical low limit turbo player, you can be successful. And the turbos will get you to a blind level where you can begin to excercise your edge in 15 minutes, versus 30 minutes for the regulars.

If you haven't done so already, you will need to get one of the SNG tools like SNGPT or SNGWiz. Either $79 or $99. You can do these ICM calcs by hand, but it is time consuming. Either of these programs is well worth the price.

I suspect a lot of low buyin turbo players simply don't want to spend the money for these programs. They play for fun, and don't want to spend that much to improve their game. These are the players you can gain a nice edge on--and there seems to be a decent supply at the low buyins.

Sorry if this rambled a bit......but it's early.....

[trej]

I think youve hit the nail on the head there loyo, I dont usually play the turbos so may give them a go. I think I need to invest in sngpt, ive been meaning to do so for a while now but couldnt justify spending 7 sng buy ins.
I think its a worthy investment if it will give me an edge

I also play sngs on bodog where sngs are very fishy with multiple limpers in the early stages of the game, this is in complete contrast to pokerstars. Though since playing on pokerstars ive been forced to try improve my game and look for leaks, which can only be a good thing!

Thanks for posting grimshade, I was beginning to think I was the only person that had this view, shows Im still at an early stage of the learning curve I guess

[Zool1]

I have to say, I've been enjoying the $16 Turbos on Stars for the last couple of weeks (very much - still waiting for my RoI to drop below 100% - I know it will soon ). This is after a substantial poker lay-off.

I was apprehensive because I thought that the quicker the trny, the smaller part skill has to play in it. This actually isn't necessarily true, for the reason that loyo pointed out above. Skill also dominates to a large extent in SnGs in the low-M endgame (which actually makes up about half of most Turbos). People play far, far too tight, making these very juicy - and ideal for multitabling, since you can spend most of the trny pushing or folding.

Another good point is that luck does dominate more strongly in the short-term. What I find this leads to is fewer good players relative to weak ones (compared to regular SnGs) once you get to the bubble of any given trny, since the better players are either way ahead or busted out, rather than clinging on. This seems to make it a lot easier to win these trnys rather than just cashing once you reach the bubble/money.

Just my .02

[maf66]

It's interesting that the OP raised this point.

Last night I thought I'd just hop onto a $5 2 table SNG at Stars before going to bed. These used to be my bread-and-butter games (and I really should go back to playing more of them). I couldn't believe how long it took for the first player to be eliminated. It took about 20 minutes, compared to the 20 seconds that I normally associate with the $5 games.

I thought this was a one-off, but obviously this isn't the case.

One last word about Turbos. I play the odd one every so often, but personally I think they ruined my game for a while. When switching back to a 'normal' game, it's sometimes hard to get out of turbo way of thinking. I think it's best to play a variety so you don't lose your normal game, just so long as you remember what you're playing at the time .

[BuzzBeeSi]

Do the turbo's. You may see one decent player per table up to $27.

[Zool1]

With respect to worrying about players becoming a little more educated in general, I think it's important to realise that this isn't necesserily a bad thing. It's just fine by me if the action junkies who generally gravitate towards the turbos read some articles advocating tightening up... they don't realise that different structures require different skillsets.

I rub my hands with glee every time I see someone in chat chastising me for going all in with J7o from the button with an M of 2 when everyone else has folded. I giggle with delight at every fish who thinks he's a pro because he's got a SharkScope subscription, and who spends his time quoting other people's stats back at them...

Just remember: A little knowledge can be a very dangerous thing

[Schlepper333]

I play entirely in the 5.50 SNG over at Stars. I have noticed a few things lately. I think that the reason players are staying in longer is that they are afraid to lose their chips. They cling to them like a life raft after a ship wreck. Case in point. There were 6 players left the other night, blinds were 50/100 and I had 900 chips. I started moving all in with reasonable hands and first in. My moves were folded too each time and I eventually climbed back into a healthy chip count and came in third. Unbelievable I could get away with uncontested pushing that often. What is really hilarious is to watch players limp with 500 chips and the blinds are 100/200.

I have also noticed a recent trend to limp with premium hands and play them slow all the way. The other night a fellow was limping to the river with sets. Don't know if he was new and had never heard of raising or not. I see lots of limping with KK,QQ and JJ. I can understand a limp first in with AK, though I wouldn't do it.

I have not played in turbos. I am a bit scared of them. I would appreciate someone give me a quick, if possible, strategy plan. Also what is ROL and how does one figure it out. I use Stat King to track my winnings, though I don't pay much attention to the other data. I have demos of WIZ and Analyzer, but the tutorial in analyzer seems difficult. Is there an eay summary somewhere that can explain it better.

I rub my hands with glee every time I see someone in chat chastising me for going all in with J7o from the button with an M of 2 when everyone else has folded.

Here is the chastising story to end all chastising stories:

I was stealing blinds pretty regularly from the guy next to me. Then he typed in: If you try to steal one more of my blinds I am going allin on you.

Schlepper: Stealing is part of the game and I am surprised you didn't move in before this. If you don't like getting stolen from you should steal some blinds of your own.

Donk: I would but my stack is too short.

Schlepper: All the more reason to steal.

Donk: Ha.

So a little later I was in SB action to me and I held K9s. I raised and he folded!

Two or three others typed in: LOL

Donk: Well, next tiime.

It wasn't long before he was out.

Schlepp

[trej]

Well Ive had a crack at the turbos and I seem to be having a much higher success rate.
I tried the 6.50s just to get used to the format, only played six so far which I know is bugger all, but so far ive got 2 wins and 3 second places. Not bad really, the play definately seems softer.
There was some guy on the bubble last night, blinds at 100 and 50, folding hand after hand with just 400 chips, I pushed every hand agaist him in the sb and he didnt make a stand till his M was just 2.

After reading Osmosis MTT thread I decided to try his move, ie playing a pot in position against a weak player. I manage to steal two pots this way by just calling his raise with any2, and raising the inevitable weak bet on the flop(30 into 400 pot!!). Twice in a row this worked for 600 chips, unbeleivable.

I also invested in sngpt which has been useful so far, its quite easy to use really