ITH Poker Forum

[FORECONSnipr]

Hey y'all!

First post ever on ITH as I'm totally new to this board - no so new to NLHE, however.

Anybody familiar with zone play "M" and "Q"?

Last night, I played 4 SNGs, 3 of which I had the exact same hand AND very similar situations, hence this question:

The following three questions / situations are all the exact same game format: 10 man $11 SNGs with a standard payout for the top 3 spots - 1st) $50 2nd) $30 3rd) $20.

Situation / hand #1: Been playing solid game all along - TAG style, haven't shown down any bluffs, haven't been very active EXCEPT RECENTLY, have probably pushed a few hands all in with my shortstack - I would say 3 of my last 6 or so, therefore managed to claw myself up to a relatively healthy "M" and "Q". Now down to 5 left, blinds are 100/200 and average stack is right around $4k in chips. I had around $3k (effective "M" of 5 for shorthanded, "Q" of 0.75. Folded around to me on the cutoff position, I look down at KQ unsuited with only the button and blinds behind me - I push all in. Called by BB with AJ (just had me covered, around $3500 in chips left. J on flop, A on turn. I lose, placing 5th

Situation / hand #2: Been playing solid game, TAG style, haven't shown down any bluffs, haven't been very active. Down to around 5 left again, blinds around the same around 100/200 , average stack again around $4k in chips. This time I had only $2200 with an effective "M" of 3.67 and "Q" of around 0.5. Again folded to me, this time on button with 5 players left. I look down at KQ unsuited again, and I push all in. One of the blinds call me with K10 and got lucky on river, hitting 10 to outdraw me.

Situation / hand #3: Again, playing a solid, TAG game, haven't shown down any bluffs, haven't been very active. Down to 4 left, blinds at right around the same exact level - 100/200. This time I had a smaller stack, around $1400, average stack of probably $5k at this point - my "M" is very low, around 1.86 with "Q" of 0.28. Folded around to me, again I have KQ unsuited I think from the cutoff position.... I push all in. Behind me 1 caller with Q7 hearts in BB (he had pretty large stack at this point, probably around $5k in chips at this point... he thought for 20 seconds, then called. He got lucky on river (flop was K high.. i hit top pair)... two hearts on flop... 3rd heart on river to knock me out in 4th.

Now... here's the question: Of the above 3 very similar situations in one night... I believe I played Situations #2 and #3 correctly as I really had no other options but to push with such low Ms in these situations. Plus, I believe, the "Q" levels in #2 and #3 also point to pushing my stack. I believe for #1, I *could* have waited for another hand.. I think that even though #1s "M" was sort of low, it wasn't totally urgent that I chose THIS PARTICULAR hand and went with it - any opinions?

My question reworded generally: Sure my "M" (in all three examples) was in the red zone, hence requiring a move fairly soon and "Q" reflected the urgency to do so as well. Does this mean I HAVE to make a move with the first hand available in this situation? (This is assuming everyone folded around to me, hence giving me "first in vigorish"). When (under what specific "M" and "Q" sitautions) does an AUTOMATIC push seem like the best possible play? Or are there other variables to consider before making this move?

If your "M" is low (say in the red zone, i.e., < 5) and your "Q" is probably slightly below average, does this 100% require that you push in with the FIRST "decent" hand that you pick up providing everyone folds to you? Or is this just a general guideline and should usually be done in this way, JUST NOT all the time? What do you guys think?

At what "M" and "Q" points should it be 100% necessary to push without discrepancies or further thought?

If, for example, your effective "M" (shorthanded) is 4.5 and your "Q" is 1.0... is it necessary to push with the first hand when folded around to you?

What about "M" of 4.5 and "Q" or 0.5, etc.?

Has anyone out there thoroughly mastered zone play and can give me a good guideline for this?

Thanks so much guys! Look forward to talking to all of ya

Ivan aka "FORECONSnipr"

[Radford]

Personally i think all three hands are super easy pushes.

[leofric]

I used to take less notice of M in SNGs than Q - your stack relative to others is often more important. For example if you have the other guy covered its a lot harder for him to call since survival is everything. FWIW I'd have pushed all 3 hands as well - if you wanted to make a case for folding the first one I think you'd need an above average stack so that you were at less risk of being blinded out first.