ITH Poker Forum

[Skrotnisse]

Bet, right? How should I be thinking? (I usually bet river with my worst and check my best) How would you play a non club river?

5/10 Limit Holdem
5 players

Pre-flop: (1.4 SB, 5 players) Hero is CO
1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, SB calls, 1 fold

Flop: (5.0 SB, 2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls

Turn: (3.5 BB, 2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB calls

River: (7.5 BB, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero ?

[Willem]

I would definitely check behind a non-club river. The turn raise can then be viewed as a free showdown raise. Besides, you need to give up on some bluffs on the river anyway, so it makes sense to give up on your 'best' bluffs (most showdown value).

It's closer with the club river. Now you need hands to bluff with the flush coming in. Without the flush, you can simply bluff your weak busted flush draws. I don't mind checking QT behind here, but I think you need it to achieve a high enough bluffing frequency. So I'm inclined to bet this with the club river.

(Note that this also depends on what draws you raise on the flop. If you always wait for the turn, you'd also have hands like 34 and 64 to bluff the river with.)

Don't worry about the bluff not being EV+. Against an optimal opponent, bluffs are by definition EV0. The sole purpose if bluffing is to force your opponent to pay off your valuebets.

Easy game, right.

[ImBetterDude]

I don't know jack about limit hold em, but isn't villain going to call every time on that river getting 8-1? Why throw away a big bet?

[nsidestrate]

I'd bet here on a club or a straight and check behind on a blank.

[Skrotnisse]

Besides, you need to give up on some bluffs on the river anyway, so it makes sense to give up on your 'best' bluffs (most showdown value).

Agree with everything but this. Why do we need to give up on some bluffs on the river? How can he take advantage of us always betting our draw if we have enough valuebets?


Oh, and thanks everone for the feedback!

[Willem]

Agree with everything but this. Why do we need to give up on some bluffs on the river? How can he take advantage of us always betting our draw if we have enough valuebets?

You can all read about this in TMOP. In a nutshell, you need to bluff the turn with more hand than the river. Hence, you should 'drop' some bluffs there.

[Skrotnisse]

Agree with everything but this. Why do we need to give up on some bluffs on the river? How can he take advantage of us always betting our draw if we have enough valuebets?

You can all read about this in TMOP. In a nutshell, you need to bluff the turn with more hand than the river. Hence, you should 'drop' some bluffs there.

Ok, thank you! If you´re refering to "mathematics of poker", I´m reading that now. Though it´s quite heavy!