ITH Poker Forum

[chillin411]

http://www.internettexasholdem.com/poke ... ement-act/

"On July 11, 2006, the House of Representatives overwhelmingly voted in favor of the “Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006,” a combination of two prior bills. While the prospects of the Senate passing similar legislation this year are uncertain, it nevertheless is important to understand the scope of the bill, if, for no other reason, that it may well be reintroduced next year."

[bpgui]

Very interesting and well written.

Ironically, a competing bill had recommended such a study be completed before any further regulation was undertaken. Evidently, the House did not seriously consider the possibility that the results of the study might warrant that internet gambling simply be regulated, rather than banned.

Exactly why I have no faith in Congress.

[Piemaster]

In other words, the bill provides a mechanism for the government to prohibit gambling sites from accepting credit from companies like Neteller, even if those companies do not otherwise, fit within the technical definition of the types of financial institutions already expressly included.

This I don't understand.

Neteller is based on Isle of Man. Poker site is based on coconut island somewhere. What jurisdiction can the American legal system possibly have over a transaction between the two?

[Wynton]

Piemaster,

I understand the confusion, because it is somewhat counterintuitive.

First you have to accept the premise that the US can make it a criminal act for companies (anywhere) to accept bets and credit for bets over the internet (on the theory that the activity has an effect on the US or is related to conduct in the US).

If you accept that premise, then it is a shorter leap to say that other companies must not aid the gambling, by engaging in financial transactions with the gambling sites.

Of course, I do not mean to suggest that foreign companies, like Neteller, wouldn't contest these rules. Nor do I dismiss the possibility that enforcement of these rules might be problematic.

I merely meant to convey that the statute contemplates that the US could draft regulations that encompass Neteller, regardless of whether Neteller technically is covered by other provisions.

[Piemaster]

Piemaster,

I understand the confusion, because it is somewhat counterintuitive.

First you have to accept the premise that the US can make it a criminal act for companies (anywhere) to accept bets and credit for bets over the internet (on the theory that the activity has an effect on the US or is related to conduct in the US).

I don't know whether I accept that or not, because I'm not really sure what you mean when you say "US can make it a criminal act for companies (anywhere) to accept bets and credit for bets over the internet ".

I mean sure they can in the same way that Britain can make it illegal to eat pretzels on the street in Wisconsin. In other words we could write it into British law and feel great about it, but we have no power whatsoever to enforce it or to make others enforce it, so in effect the power is meaningless.

[Wynton]

Yes, there is a huge distinction between what the US Congress may have authority to enact, and what they have the practical ability to enforce.

But as I said in the article, the teeth of the bill can be found in its civil remedies, which are easier to see being enforced. The US will not find it easy to get people involved in gambling sites extradited in order to prosecute them criminally. It seems that they will have a lot more success in persuading banks to stop dealing with gambling sites, and to stop ISPs from permitting access to those sites.

[nsidestrate]

Neteller is based on Isle of Man. Poker site is based on coconut island somewhere. What jurisdiction can the American legal system possibly have over a transaction between the two?

I think the greater concern is that the law effectively prohibits US banks from making transactions with Neteller.

[Piemaster]

I think the greater concern is that the law effectively prohibits US banks from making transactions with Neteller.

I agree, that is the issue. Let's be fair, we're not extraditing the CEO of Neteller to the US for trial because he allowed some US money be transfered to a poker site. Whether the US like it or not, their laws don't apply to other countries.

[toom]

Exempted gambling

The bill contains several notable exemptions. For example, the bill indicates that it is not intended to affect activities relating to horse racing.

I assume this means that they are talking about OTB run by the tracks themselves. Otherwise, I would be well within my rights to fund a horsebook.com account, trasnfer to sportsbook.com, transfer to paradise.

(I did that in reverse to bet on the Kentucky Derby. If that donkey Bluegrass Cat hadn't finished second, I would have won a huge exacta.)

[Wynton]

Toom,

I can quote the exact language of the bill if you're interested, but the concensus view is that the language is meant to permit online betting on horse racing.

Also, the bill cross-references to other statutes pertaining to horse-racing,and presumably those statutes contain some kind of licensing provisions. But the new bill itself makes no distinction according to who happens to be accepting the bets.

[chillrob]

Speaking of horse racing being exempted, I have a plan in mind where all the major poker sites start also accepting betting on horse races. They wouldn't be able to stop you from depositing money to "Party Poker and Pari-mutual", would they?

Rob

[Bullajami]

I finally got around to reading this article, Wynton. Thanks for the thorough and concise rundown on the salient points of the bill.

I can quote the exact language of the bill if you're interested, but the concensus view is that the language is meant to permit online betting on horse racing.

This, by itself, seems to make the bill unenforceable. ChillRob and Toom have it nailed: I can't buy poker chips using Neteller or Citibank, but I can put money in a horse racing account and then transfer it to the poker room.

What's the Over/Under on the debut date for "PartyRacing", "RacingRoom", and "Racing Stars"? The software development is probably already underway.

[JPFisher55]

That's the whole problem with a regulation prohibiting banks from accepting Neteller transactions. How does the goverment know which Neteller transactions involve online horse race betting and which involve online poker, sports betting or casino gambling?
Thus, such a regulation has real due process issues.

[RiverCascade]

Whether the US like it or not, their laws don't apply to other countries.

Irrelevant. We do what we want, how we want, when we want. (Even if the "we" is .00025% of the population.) Comply, or you will pay (maybe even die).

[dvjeep]

The big issue in the U.S. isn't where the money goes, but that the Government can tell the ISP's to block access to poker sites. Now, I can't play poker online anymore, and I'll be forced to start knocking over liquor stores to get spending money.