ITH Poker Forum

[anthony30]

Hey all,

This is my first post as I am new to this so I was seeking some outside help to help my ever so doomed poker results.

I have been playing poker on and off for the last 5 years. Seriously for the last 3ish years. I play mainly long handed $0.50 - $1 and have done for the last 2 years and have been dreadful at it. Yes I have had good times like winning $1126 (1st place) on a 10 dollar rebuy with 126 players and a few other final table place finishes and I have also had moments where I have won 1700 dollars in cash games (.50 - $1) over a 2 month period but for some reason everything has gone wrong.

I record all my winnings and as it stands at this moment I am -$2597.53 in the red.

I have read many poker books and my recent one was the excellent book - the poker mindset. That was a good read and a kick back into touch with reality.

Because of my downward spirl, I am using this new year and a new years resolution to improve my poker. Now, I have took advice out of the poker mindset book and about to apply them. My first one is to reload my account with $1000 worth of poker chips and drop down to .25 - .50 no limit hold em.

This is my list of goals I plan on aiming for:
Learn to quit poker when on tilt and bored or tired.
Spend 3 or so hours reading forums or a chapter of a poker book.
Not to have the telly on or surf the net when playing poker
Give 100% at the table. When I drift away, I will then come off.

I plan on taking this one step at a time and treat each session (not results) at a time and see how I go.

I can safely say, if I had done the above a few years ago, then I would have saved myself roughly $1000 - $1200 as I can think of a few occasions when I have accidently called someones all in bet by accident (because of watching TV) or I have made 'curiousity calls' out of bordom or miss read my hand cause my mind was still on the last hand or whatever. So, all ready, I am sure I am saving money here.

What I ask of those who read this, is, is this a good idea to deposit $1000 (that I can afford to lose) and start taking the game more seriously.

Has anyone else got any suggestions or comments they would like to say. I would be extremely appreciative of any help you guys could give me.

My kindest regards

Anthony

[the_hawk]

Well, this is the BRM forum so on the bankroll side of things I'll say one thing. It's not 100% clear from your post but I presume you're playing no-limit.

If this is the case then FORGET NL100 (.5/1 blinds) for now; I'd recommend you start at no more than NL25 and maybe even lower. You have to get into the habit of winning and I'd suggest playing very conservatively within your bankroll. There are plenty of grinding sharks as low as NL50 (depending on where you play) and you probably need to improve your game before getting anywhere near NL100, irrespective of the bankroll requirements.

[anthony30]

I apologise. yes I mean no limit hold em. and I have come down from .50 - 1 dollar as I am just getting crushed. I would have thought anything less than .25 - .50 dollar would be to low that bingo is more the game at that level.

I play at PKR and this is my reason for dropping down a limit. To improve while limiting my losses. in my opinion I believe anything lower could be just plain bingo

[Scully]

I'm not sure you're right about lower level games being pure bingo, although I have not played cash games on PKR so I'm not sure about there.

The thing is, wih a table full of weak players it should become less bingo-like if you play good solid poker pre flop and exercise pot control with marginal hands and build pots with big hands. This is not as easy as it sounds but with discipline it is definitely doable for anyone.

One problem I have noticed in small stakes games, and I have been guilty of myself, is that once you are in a hand you want to win that hand, which leads to trying to force players off hands who, when you think things through in retrospect, were never going anywhere, or making the marginal calls on the flop or turn with a low top pair and a poor kicker, only to face further action on later streets when you can't really get away from the hand only to find that, as usual, the opponent had you beat with an overpair or better kicker all along.

The thing is, if you make mistakes like that you're only going to spew at higher stakes. I would guess from what you posted about your results to date that you have had many hands that go a bit like:

You have J9o in the SB. Three players limp so you complete because it's cheap and juicy odds. Flop comes down 9h6h4c. You think you probably have the best hand so bet it, lets say 75% of the pot. You get two callers - not ideal but it happens. Turn is a 5c. Pretty ugly, but now the board is even more drawy, but you still have top pair so you lead out again. Again both players call and you're starting to feel uncomfortable about your hand. River is a horrible 7h completing both flush a straight draws. You now know you're toast so you check. One villain throws out a bet of around a third of the pot and you convince yourself that you're good often enough to call and he shows down pocket Ah9h for the flush, but he had you crushed the whole hand.

So calling a small amount in the SB 'just to have a look and see if we can flop big' costs you a third of your buyin.

I've seen this happen so often, and I've done it many. many times myself.

What you should do with your J9 is realise you have a weak hand that does not warrant much, or anything, further to go in the pot. Often you will check this down only to find that the villain spikes his T to beat you on the river and you gave him the free card. Annoying, but really, who cares? It's a tiny pot. We're not that interested in winning a whole load of tiny pots, we want to to win one huge pot. Over 200 hands you may drip away 25 big blinds and not win a hand, but then boom - you stack someone. Overall a huge profit and you walk away happy.

Btw I'm not saying that winning small pots is irrelevant - it's not, but there are times to try and take down a small pot and times when you shouldn't bother. Being out of position multiway is a time not to bother.

The key to NLHE at lower stakes is to understand what size pot a hand should win. For example, if you get all in with bottom pair for a full buyin you will rarely win. If the villain co-operates you may win a 8bb pot - but thats all the hand is worth. Once the pot is getting north of 10-15 blinds your hand is no good, so don't let the pot get that big. If the villain won't co-operate and makes the pot that size then let the hand go. Sure you sometimes fold the best hand, but not that often, and you're folding the best hand in a tiny pot.

If you're going to start afresh, and given that you've been losing this seems a good plan (don't take offence here btw), start at the bottom. Learn the basics thoroughly at the lower levels, so your mistakes aren't expensive ones. Once you've won 20 buyins, cash out your original invstment and win 20 more. When you have enough to cover 20 buyins at the next level you've essentially proved you're beating the current level and are ready to move up.

If you adopt this approach, combined with studying and assessing your play there is no reason why you can't be a long term winner, and never play with your own cash again. Over time you will move up levels, and probably down as well from time to time. As you say you can afford to lose $1,000 I assume you're not playing to make serous money to influence your lifestyle, but because you enjoy the game. In which case if it takes a few months, or even years to get to NL100 and beyond so be it. Winning at NL25 is a lot more fun than losing at NL100.

As to whether it's bingo - it can be if you let it be. Sure you'll take some absurd beats, but if you keep making solid decisions you will be the winner. If you're not beating the lowest levels it not because its bingo, it's because there are holes in your game. Fill those holes at that level and your move up will follow.

[anthony30]

Sorry about the delay. very busy at work at the moment.

I totally agree with a lot of things said here. I am very guilty of being 'stubborn' and not letting hands go because I sometimes think I dont want to be seen as a 'push over' at the table.

I have once or twice. - Very Sparsly re-raised a raise with a stupid hand. sometimes I get caught out but a few times it does work. I think my problem here is not thinking what my opponent has got or what he thinks I have got.

I like your true theory about leaving small pots and then go for the big pot. the problem here is discipline. Good hands with great flops and some opponent(s) with a really good second hand is very few and far between. even at the speed of internet poker. I think this is a problem that causes me to want to 'gamble' marginal hands.

No I am not planning on making serious money. I like the game as a hobby as I have a good job and personnaly think poker can get really boring played for for a living.
So, I think given what I earn, I think I will use my new years resolution to deposit 20 buyins .20 .50 = 1000 dollars and play with that. If I am struggling I will move down to limit my loses and gain more experience. Like you say, move up again when comfortable.

Finally. I think I will dicipline myself into making myself come off poker. weather if it is only 30 minutes into a game or 3 hours into a game. after all. as Mathew says in his book, the poker mind set, it doesnt matter when you play your hands as it is just one continuous game.

Does this all make sense.

Anthony

[Scully]

The bit about treating it as one long game is absolutely right, although it can take a good half an hour to start getting reliable reads on people you haven't played before. I mean, if you play for an hour, get all in in two or three big pots as a favourite and lose, as will happen plenty, you'll end the session down. Is this a bad session - no.

If you don't have Pokertracker or Holdem Manager though, get one or the other. Personally I use HEM but I don't think it makes much difference.

You can get these free - just Google free Holdem Manager or free Pokertracker and take it from there.

Good luck

[anthony30]

Cheers Scully. I used to have Poker tracker but Id didnt move to PKR. I will ask pkr if holdem manager will work with there program

[Scully]

I'll save ou the trouble - it doesn't. TBH there are better places to play. PKR is fun, but the software sucks for multitabling and is pretty slow. So unless you're clearing a bonus I would go elsewhere - have a look at the rakeback sites - rakeback is always nice. Alternatively sign up for a RB deal through ITH