ITH Poker Forum

[safesteps]

Seat 5: kwtsbet ($71.80 in chips)
Seat 6: louisjean108 ($461.15 in chips)
Seat 9: SorenaMeshki ($99.80 in chips)
Seat 10: Hero ($446.40 in chips)



ANTES/BLINDS
Hero posts small blind ($2), kwtsbet posts big blind ($2), DEALING_HOLE_CARDS
.

PRE-FLOP
PLAYER_RESERVE
, louisjean108 raises to $8, SorenaMeshki folds, Hero calls $8, kwtsbet calls $8.

FLOP board cards:
DEALING_FLOP
, Hero checks, kwtsbet checks, louisjean108 checks.

TURN board cards:
DEALING_TURN
, Hero bets $20, kwtsbet folds, louisjean108 calls $20.

RIVER board cards:
DEALING_RIVER
, Hero checks, louisjean108 bets $48, Hero raises to $175

[safesteps]

I believe preflop call is terrible, but what do you think about the postflop play?

PS: sorry about the misstyping on the POLL: "IS HERO..." is the beginning of the sentence

[J7]

Preflop is beyond terrible. The river can be good against some villains, although I am not a big fan of checkraise bluffing rivers in general. While I think this is one of the best spots to bare-ace check-raise bluff, it requires that the villain can actually fold. And bet-folding rivers for value is just something that many people seem unable to do, so readless I would not expect him to fold a flush often enough.

[lolercoasterrr]

I think this line is fine (except for the awful preflop call) if your opponent is capable of laying down a high or medium flush. Personally though i've tried the bare-ace bluff a couple of times and every time it's been called, so unless you are playing mid-high stakes omaha where players are thinking players I would err on the sound of caution and just avoid that play

[clabbers]

Most of our doubt comes from not betting the flop. If we bet the flop then the runner flush isn't all that likely a holding, although it can't be ruled out. Bottom set loses lots of money in Omaha, but it's too good to check fold and not nearly good enough to check raise flop for pure value (metagame might justify that play).

[clabbers]

Preflop call not that horrible, would make it if ace was suited or if same guy was always pounding my big blind.

[safesteps]

Hero checks, louisjean108 bets $48, Hero raises to $175, louisjean108 calls $175.

SHOWDOWN
Hero shows
louisjean108 shows
louisjean108 wins $412.



Villain wasnt the type of player who could lay down second nuts here, so my friend payed his move...


note: when I post hands with Hero in them they re not mine. When I post my hands I always use the nickname.

[Bouma]

Well look at what louisjean108 raised pre... plus not able to lay down 2nd nuts... well rounded player

[safesteps]

Well look at what louisjean108 raised pre

Nice point!! I hadnt noticed it! How can you blame hero for his preflop call afterall?

[J7]

Well look at what louisjean108 raised pre

Nice point!! I hadnt noticed it! How can you blame hero for his preflop call afterall?

Hero's preflop call was much much much worse than louisjean108's raise, louisjean108 played the entire hand fine, I would probably have played it the same way.

[Bouma]

Well look at what louisjean108 raised pre

Nice point!! I hadnt noticed it! How can you blame hero for his preflop call afterall?

Hero's preflop call was much much much worse than louisjean108's raise, louisjean108 played the entire hand fine, I would probably have played it the same way.

I don't think it was that bad because of louisjean108 raising any random hands obv. So I'd call more light pre.

What I see here: louis raises random hand and gets called by hero, louis gives a freecard on the flop while having the initiative, then he calls the turn while being way behind, then he gets lucky and calls kinda risky on the river...

Hero makes a mistake pre, then he plays it fairly well, but I don't like the river raise because I don't think he would risk checkraising the nutflush if he actually had it. So the better bluff would be a half-pot bet which he could also fold facing a possible re-raise, or am I wrong? Although a simple check/fold could be better than trying a bluff...

[J7]

I don't think it was that bad because of louisjean108 raising any random hands obv. So I'd call more light pre.

KQ92ds is easily in the top 35% of hands, and opening 35% of cutoffs is loose but not unreasonable, especially if the button is tight. Also, to be making light calls out of position the loose villain also needs to be a donkey postflop, and as you can see here, hero got pretty much the flop he was hoping for but the villain played the hand prudently and got the money. Against this kind of a villain there really are no implied odds here, rather building a bottom set just has bad reverse implied odds as you mostly get a lot of action when you are beat.

What I see here: louis raises random hand and gets called by hero, louis gives a freecard on the flop while having the initiative, then he calls the turn while being way behind, then he gets lucky and calls kinda risky on the river...

What I see here: louis raises a reasonable hand in position and gets called by a donkey with a random hand, louis takes a freecard on the flop while having top pair, a gutshot, and two backdoor flush draws, then he makes a standard peel of a weak turn stab, then he gets lucky, makes a good value bet and calls kinda bluffy-looking raise on the river...

So the better bluff would be a half-pot bet which he could also fold facing a possible re-raise, or am I wrong?

What better hand would you fold out with a half-pot bet? Nobody would fold any flush there, maybe a somewhat unlikely straight could fold but that's about it. Now, making a really small "blocking" bet in case you are ahead (small enough to induce a raise from flushes), and jamming over a raise would be a sexy line though...

[safesteps]

Hero makes a mistake pre, then he plays it fairly well

I 'd make light calls with such a villain but only IP.
I dont like the flop check. With a villain like this, I would stab it right there with my bottom set.

So the better bluff would be a half-pot bet which he could also fold facing a possible re-raise, or am I wrong?

Because you 're playing really deep here, it's a very good situation for hero to make a small-inducing-raise blocking bet, and if the villain falls and raises, hero should come over the top with a pot-raise.

[Bouma]

What I see here: louis raises random hand and gets called by hero, louis gives a freecard on the flop while having the initiative, then he calls the turn while being way behind, then he gets lucky and calls kinda risky on the river...

What I see here: louis raises a reasonable hand in position and gets called by a donkey with a random hand, louis takes a freecard on the flop while having top pair, a gutshot, and two backdoor flush draws, then he makes a standard peel of a weak turn stab, then he gets lucky, makes a good value bet and calls kinda bluffy-looking raise on the river...

love it!
looks like I underestimated louis

Because you 're playing really deep here, it's a very good situation for hero to make a small-inducing-raise blocking bet, and if the villain falls and raises, hero should come over the top with a pot-raise.

Yeah but that only works if he actually has the nutflush, because as it happened louis called the reraise...

[J7]

Because you 're playing really deep here, it's a very good situation for hero to make a small-inducing-raise blocking bet, and if the villain falls and raises, hero should come over the top with a pot-raise.

Yeah but that only works if he actually has the nutflush, because as it happened louis called the reraise...

I think the probability that louis calls a 3-bet is less than the probability that he calls a checkraise. I have found that bet-3-betting the river looks a lot stronger and gets a lot more respect than a checkraise, maybe because it is easier to answer "yes" to the question "Would he really bet so small with the nuts?" than to the question "Would he really check the nuts here?". Also, people see river bluff-raises a lot more often than river bluff-3-bets, so it looks less like the kind of bluff they have seen so many times before. That said, bet-3-betting the river may still get called too often and be a bit spewy against many villains (that's why I said "sexy" rather than "good" , you should use caution/reads before applying the sexy) but at least I think it looks stronger and is often a better line than a checkraise.