ITH Poker Forum

[leofric]

Ref makes mistake - team get screwed - must be a first

Your also now in my black book

If this happened to England the world would have to stop ..

You mean like when a certain ball didnt cross the line?

I was as pissed off as anyone at the time but on mature reflection the ref didnt score either of Germany's first 2 goals so we only have our selves to blame for being in the mess he then left us in.

(Isn't this what poker players do - rationalise after the event?)

[Llanlad]

You mean like when a certain ball didnt cross the line?

I was as pissed off as anyone at the time but on mature reflection the ref didnt score either of Germany's first 2 goals so we only have our selves to blame for being in the mess he then left us in.

(Isn't this what poker players do - rationalise after the event?)

What a crock of shit that is ...

England where bloody inept right through those championships and where well and truly tanked by Germany ... that goal made zero difference to that game and if it did , they would have had no chance in going on to win the cup anyway.

If that happened to England against someone like Croatia and they where knocked out then i could understand your point ....a little

[Dogs]

Does the three-week ban - a slap on the wrist given the supposed seriousness of the offence - and hardly punitive in the sense that Warburton will miss few if any games of consequence - represent a tacit admission that there are serious doubts about the ref's decision?

Hard to say really. They often reduce bans quite significantly when a player has a clean record. And perhaps they were using Umaga and Mealamu as a yardstick, who got bugger all for their spear tackle.

The more people I speak to about it, the more I think the law needs changing. I've met a surprising number of people who are adamant it was a red. The main problem I have with this is that they all seem to base this on the slow motion replay, which makes it look far more of a deliberate movement than it really was. In my opinion, Warburton's tackle was simple physics at work: someone small and light ran into someone who was stronger and heavier. He's going to end up horizontal. The daft thing is that Warburton appeared to realise what was about to happen and attempt to rescue the situation by releasing the man, whereas if he'd held on then it might have been considered 'safer' and resulted a lesser punishment. He wasn't helped by the fact that Clerc decided to hold onto the ball rather than make any effort to break his own fall - I'm not *blaming* Clerc, just suggesting that if he had stuck an arm out then Rolland may have viewed it differently. Still, to cheer up Llan a bit, here's a video featuring two tackles demonstrating those physics at work:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzN8Hg7yCkE

Good performance from the NZ pack today. The backs aren't flowing - and maybe won't without Carter - but that was much better. Looking forward to Wales against Australia more than the final though!

[Dogs]

However he didnt miss the conversion, or any of the penalties or even fail to set up a drop goal in the last few minutes.

Lievremont's line was effectively 'we kicked our goals and they didn't'. And regardless what we think about the sending off, that's a fair comment.

[the_hawk]

In my opinion, Warburton's tackle was simple physics at work: someone small and light ran into someone who was stronger and heavier. He's going to end up horizontal. The daft thing is that Warburton appeared to realise what was about to happen and attempt to rescue the situation by releasing the man, whereas if he'd held on then it might have been considered 'safer' and resulted a lesser punishment.

This is the irony. If he'd held-on (without driving the man in the ground) he could certainly have been seen to "see the man to the ground with consideration for safety" (or whatever similar / analogous gumph is in the laws). One reason that he couldn't really hold-on is that he pretty much immediately regained his feet (if he ever really lost them), which unless I'm muchly mistaken is what players are generally supposed to do.

[leofric]

You mean like when a certain ball didnt cross the line?

I was as pissed off as anyone at the time but on mature reflection the ref didnt score either of Germany's first 2 goals so we only have our selves to blame for being in the mess he then left us in.

(Isn't this what poker players do - rationalise after the event?)

What a crock of shit that is ...

England where bloody inept right through those championships and where well and truly tanked by Germany ... that goal made zero difference to that game and if it did , they would have had no chance in going on to win the cup anyway.

If that happened to England against someone like Croatia and they where knocked out then i could understand your point ....a little

Erm ......... hence the reason why we got knocked out wasnt due to a bad call.

Wales didnt win because they didnt take the chances they had........... Simples!

[leofric]

Incidently is it just me or did Quaaaaaade Coopers legs seem above his head when tackled to the ground by Corey Jane?

Then again it was early in the morning for me (on a sunday) so maybe I missed the red card!

(Oh hang on - it's being held in NZ)

[Llanlad]

I truly hope France get a almighty kicking in the final ...

I hope its the most one sided final ever .. and a true anti climax to a world cup ...

Im not bothered about the 3rd place playoff ...why do they even do that ? .. the last thing 2 beaten semi finalists want is another game.

[Dogs]

Incidently is it just me or did Quaaaaaade Coopers legs seem above his head when tackled to the ground by Corey Jane?

I spotted that too as it happens. He stuck his arm out, didn't land on his head, so it doesn't count.

[leofric]

Incidently is it just me or did Quaaaaaade Coopers legs seem above his head when tackled to the ground by Corey Jane?

I spotted that too as it happens. He stuck his arm out, didn't land on his head, so it doesn't count.

So the fact that Cooper stuck his hand out makes it perfectly ok but Clerc doesnt so its a red?

I have 2 final thoughts on this...........

1) Looks like the Welsh had visited that dwarf tossing bar as well - Warbutton simply forgot where he was......

2) I always assumed that if someone on the opposing team was given a hospital pass it was your job to fulfill it!

[Dogs]

Incidently is it just me or did Quaaaaaade Coopers legs seem above his head when tackled to the ground by Corey Jane?

I spotted that too as it happens. He stuck his arm out, didn't land on his head, so it doesn't count.

So the fact that Cooper stuck his hand out makes it perfectly ok but Clerc doesnt so its a red?

Where's the tongue-in-cheek smiley when you need it, eh?

[Llanlad]

After watching that ... I feel we have been mugged even more now ..

A chance of a lifetime has been taken away from us by some doughnut referee ..

I hope the next time he comes to Wales he gets mugged himself.

[Dogs]

A fairly low-key end to what has been a pretty poor World Cup. The All Blacks really don't look that threatening without Carter. Despite my feelings before the match I found myself rooting for the French; at least they looked like they wanted to attack.

The third place playoff didn't quite live up to expectation either, but again that was largely due to key players being missing. Wales are far more impressive with Adam Jones, Sam Warburton, and, despite my earlier concerns in this thread, Rhys Priestland. I still can't decide how much of that was him playing well as opposed to James Hook being poor, but I'll be watching him more closely in future. Australia then losing Cooper and Beale meant that the fizz I'd hoped for was largely gone.

It'll be very interesting to see where teams go from here. England have come away feeling negative and need a clear out. Ireland will be more positive, but have a number of older players. Scotland suffered more near misses, but overall felt promising. Wales are the team we all feel best about, but on paper they played 4 matches against tier 1 nations, and only won one of them. Looking forward to see how strong they are in the 6 nations. And France? Well, they're just so bloody French sometimes...

In the meantime: why on earth are Australia coming over here in a month to play 2 games?

[leofric]

I think all modern finals end up like this - there's so much pressure teams are afraid to take risks, for all the NZ press criticising England's style of play they ended up doing exactly the same when it came down to it.

Just want to bump into Leivremont at some point and say "well you had your chances but blew them!"

[PauliF]

I must admit I really did not enjoy this world cup nearly as much as previous ones...

quite dissapointed in England (my main team) and the Boks who I hold a little bit of affection for....

feel gutted the Welsh got cheated in the semi...

one thing tho.... is it just me or was there an extraodinary number of kicks hitting the uprights in this world cup?.... it happens now and again usually but I dunno it feels like it happened a lot more than usual this tourny