ITH Poker Forum

[kinnipak]

I still can't believe that the Bears lost that game in that manner...

[Damien]

He will be brought back to reality next week. You can't feel too embarresed with Cutler and Forte both out. Marion Barber did make at least one bone-head play that didn't help your cause though. I'm more shocked that the Dolphins rolled over for Philly.

[Piemaster]

I'm not sure what is most surprising to me:

1. That Tebow has managed to win so many games or
2. That he is being hailed as the new messiah despite the fact he has only beat a bunch of average to bad teams riding on the coat tails of a dominant defence.

[nsidestrate]

That he is being hailed as the new messiah despite the fact he has only beat a bunch of average to bad teams riding on the coat tails of a dominant defence.

I understand your point, but the Broncos got rid of their best player before they turned to Tebow. No one was talking about how great their defense was when they were getting shellacked by everyone and his brother under Orton and he had Brandon Lloyd to throw the ball to. He did also beat the Bears, the Chargers and the Jets -- all teams either in the playoffs or at least in the hunt. You have to give him some credit if for nothing else than giving everyone on the team a reason to believe that they could win.

I also wouldn't count on the Patriots making it clear that he isn't the real deal. Our secondary is absolutely terrible. They made Sanchez look like a big time QB -- hell, Rex Grossman looked good against the Pats. I think I could throw for a couple of TDs against the New England secondary.

[the_hawk]

I understand your point, but the Broncos got rid of their best player before they turned to Tebow. No one was talking about how great their defense was when they were getting shellacked by everyone and his brother under Orton and he had Brandon Lloyd to throw the ball to

I understand your point (and of course I'm being selective in my quote snip), but the fact that Tebow is apparently in some way taking credit for the Broncos' defense is a sign that the world has truly gone mad.

[kinnipak]

I may be being a Nit here, but I found his post game on the field interview interesting...

I don't remember it verbatim, but it went something along the lines of:

"I want to thank my offense, my coaches, my defense. They all played a part in this..."

Thanks for the insight Tim...

I know he is young, and it is pretty much impossible to not like him and his enthusiasm. His comments did surprise me. I hope that when Tebow-mania comes crashing down, it doesn't come down too hard on him..

[kinnipak]

He will be brought back to reality next week. You can't feel too embarresed with Cutler and Forte both out. Marion Barber did make at least one bone-head play that didn't help your cause though. I'm more shocked that the Dolphins rolled over for Philly.

I don't fault him for the fumble. But not staying in-bounds is completely un-acceptable. Add this to his bone-head play last week, my Bears and their goose is cooked just in time for the Packers to slaughter them on Christmas Day....

[nsidestrate]

I understand your point (and of course I'm being selective in my quote snip), but the fact that Tebow is apparently in some way taking credit for the Broncos' defense is a sign that the world has truly gone mad.

I may be being a Nit here, but I found his post game on the field interview interesting...

I don't remember it verbatim, but it went something along the lines of:

"I want to thank my offense, my coaches, my defense. They all played a part in this..."

Thanks for the insight Tim...

I know he is young, and it is pretty much impossible to not like him and his enthusiasm. His comments did surprise me. I hope that when Tebow-mania comes crashing down, it doesn't come down too hard on him..

This is entirely a creation of the media. His teammates, who see him day in and day out, never subscribe to this. When media people have tried to bait them into saying something negative about Tebow, they always are very supportive. The stuff I read says that his teammates really like the guy. Giving credit to Jesus for your on-field accomplishments has a very long and storied history in American sport and doesn't sound as odd to jocks as it does to you and I. There is obviously a danger that the cult of Tebow annoys his teammates, but it is much the same on all teams. If you ask the average Joe, the Pats are Tom Brady, the Packers are Aaron Rodgers and to be honest, I might agree that the Colts are clearly Peyton Manning.

[Piemaster]

That he is being hailed as the new messiah despite the fact he has only beat a bunch of average to bad teams riding on the coat tails of a dominant defence.

I understand your point, but the Broncos got rid of their best player before they turned to Tebow. No one was talking about how great their defense was when they were getting shellacked by everyone and his brother under Orton and he had Brandon Lloyd to throw the ball to.

Actually, nobody other than the Packers have 'shellacked' them all year (and let's face it the Packers 'shellack' everyone).

He did also beat the Bears, the Chargers and the Jets -- all teams either in the playoffs or at least in the hunt. You have to give him some credit if for nothing else than giving everyone on the team a reason to believe that they could win.

All of those teams they beat while they were playing horribly. The Chargers never played a good game all season until two weeks ago. The Bears haven't won since Cutler went down and against the Broncos they lost Forte in the 1st qurter. However, I'll definitely give Tebow credit for having a hell of a set of intangiables. He seems to do a great job of rallying the troops in the 4th quarter to win close games when given the opportunity. However, the fact that he even has the opportunity is down to the defence and a sequence of bonehead plays by opponents rather than anything tangiable that Tebow has contributed.

[nsidestrate]

All of those teams they beat while they were playing horribly. The Chargers never played a good game all season until two weeks ago.

Its a fair point, but the Chargers beat the same Broncos just with Orton. They were up by 26-10 when they pulled Orton and put in Tebow. Tebow closed to 29-24 in like 10 minutes of game time. A few weeks later, the same Chargers lost to Denver who added Tebow and lost Brandon Lloyd and Knowshon Moreno. It is true that they really haven't beaten an elite team, but they've beaten a pretty good selection of the other playoff teams similarly situated to them. If they end up drawing say the Jets and then the Texans, it isn't outside the realm of possibility they could end up playing for the conference title. Realistically, I don't think they can beat the Steelers, Patriots or Ravens, but you never know. I could see them winning ugly against any of those teams, to be honest.

The real shock is that we can even have this discussion. The Broncos were dead at 1-4 or whatever they were when Tebow stepped into the line-up. They lost to the Raiders, Titans and Chargers. The Raiders and Chargers were at home and when Tebow was in the line-up they went on the road and beat both of those teams. Plus, for whatever reason, people love to talk about him. I can't think of someone who has dominated the NFL coverage like this since Favre.

[darvon]

Although Tebow isn't playing effectively until late in the 4th, there are a LOT of things the offense is doing right all game long.

Bad qbs and inexperienced qbs play sloppy, throw ints, lose yardage, make penalties, do 3 and outs, give the opponent good field position.

Tebow has the offense playing DISCIPLINED most all of the game. He very rarely turns it over, almost nil in the first several games. He doesn't make time errors or get penalties, and neither does the offense, all game long. The defense does a stellar job to keep the opposition down, the special teams play tight. Everyone plays in a smart, disciplined manner, although Tebow doesnt seem to score much until the end. The Defense is playing well AND they aren't playing against their own offense.

And let me relate a story from Scotty Bowman, legendary NHL coach about 2 years into his coaching the Red Wings. He kept preaching his "way" his plan and strategem for the way to play hockey to win in the NHL. The first year the Red Wings did well, but got knocked out in the playoffs. In the 2nd year, Scotty said he could see the stars of the team, Yzerman and then Federov, start to "try" Scotty's way, they got a LOT better results and the whole team started to "buy in" and went on to a few Stanley Cups.

Usually the coach has the players "buying in". Tebow is doing it for the Broncos. Tight, disciplined play, tough defense, great special teams and when the opponent starts making errors in the 4th quarter, jump on them and get them spooked and score until you win.

They are confident it works and confident they can do it. Tebow preached discipline and no errors and they got a spark from him until the results reinforced the plan. Now everyone is pulling on the rope in the same direction.

They aren't a great team, but if they stay disciplined, which they have so far, they can compete. And seeing all the media guys backpedal at Warp 9 is fun.

[kinnipak]

I understand your point (and of course I'm being selective in my quote snip), but the fact that Tebow is apparently in some way taking credit for the Broncos' defense is a sign that the world has truly gone mad.

I may be being a Nit here, but I found his post game on the field interview interesting...

I don't remember it verbatim, but it went something along the lines of:

"I want to thank my offense, my coaches, my defense. They all played a part in this..."

Thanks for the insight Tim...

I know he is young, and it is pretty much impossible to not like him and his enthusiasm. His comments did surprise me. I hope that when Tebow-mania comes crashing down, it doesn't come down too hard on him..

This is entirely a creation of the media. His teammates, who see him day in and day out, never subscribe to this. When media people have tried to bait them into saying something negative about Tebow, they always are very supportive. The stuff I read says that his teammates really like the guy. Giving credit to Jesus for your on-field accomplishments has a very long and storied history in American sport and doesn't sound as odd to jocks as it does to you and I. There is obviously a danger that the cult of Tebow annoys his teammates, but it is much the same on all teams. If you ask the average Joe, the Pats are Tom Brady, the Packers are Aaron Rodgers and to be honest, I might agree that the Colts are clearly Peyton Manning.

Tebow is a media dream at this point. The media is going nutz with him. It's a big wave and they are riding it until it crashes over him.

I was referring to the fact he was saying, "MY...".

It seemed very UN-Tebow like and made me wonder if this mayhem might be getting to his psyche a bit. The interview was not instantly after the game, it was 15-20 mins afterwards so he had time to calm down after the hoopla.

The thanks to Jesus et al at the beginning of interviews covers all sports and makes me laugh when 45 seconds later they are rampaging about either how great they are or how bad a loss they suffered.

[mchilger]

he looks horrendous and wins very ugly, but he does have many things going for him
- he doesn't turn the ball over
- he sustains long drives and burns the clock (helps the defense)
- he makes others around him play better and his teammates seem to be behind the guy
- he is clutch when it counts

No doubt they have been fortunate in a lot of these games and the defense is playing lights out to keep them in the games, but one or two turnovers and they would have lost all those games. He keeps them in the game and then turns it on in the 4th.

Looking forward,this is his first year starting. How much will he be able to improve the next 2-3 years? The jury is still out but very intriguing story.

Matthew

[Piemaster]

I actually think he'll get worse next year. Once teams have a full off-season to break down game-tape of the guy, they will design defences to stop him. And as I think the ceiling on him as a passer is so low he won't really have anywhere to go at that point.

[darvon]

I concur. Reality is next year, like for Vick.