ITH Poker Forum

[Harlequin99]

NL novice here. From 88 hands, my opponent has stats of 14/13, has not three bet and has laid hands down to a three bet on two out of three occasions. I cannot remember if we have history but I have been three betting more than the average player at the table. The table is very passive in general.

$0.1/$0.2 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($10.00)
UTG+1 ($20.91)
CO ($67.62)
BTN ($43.33)
Hero (SB) ($19.90)
BB ($14.00)
[UTG posted $0.2]

Pre-flop: ($0.50, 6 players) Hero is SB
UTG checks, UTG+1 raises to $0.80, 1 fold, BTN calls $0.80, Hero raises to $3, 1 fold, UTG folds, UTG+1 raises to $8.75, BTN folds, Hero folds

Final Pot: $13.85

UTG+1 wins $12.95 ( won +$4.20 )
UTG lost -$0.20
BTN lost -$0.80
Hero lost -$3

I really don't know where I stand in this type of situation. I figured I had to go all in or fold due to being out of position and given I had only put in $3 with a $20 stack I just folded.

[Fenris78]

3bet-folding would be pretty terrible imo. If you don't know what to do if 4bet, you shouldn't have 3bet in the first place. That way you turn your AK into a bluff and you would be way better polarizing your range if you wanted to 3bet-fold. 3bet-folding strong hands is just bad planning. Of course calling isn't an option at all here.

Usually I would not hesitate to get AKs in preflop. Of course 14/13 seems pretty nitty and we do not know whether he is aware of the fact that you were 3betting more than usual. But we have some extra info: First, UTG posted, so UTG+1 might be raising wider since he wants to steal the extra dead BB and he might know that you know this (?). Next, the button cold-called which makes your play look like a squeeze play which again makes your range look weaker. So, unless I have a very solid read I would get it in with AKs all the time especially when I am the on who is doing the pushing for that extra little fold equity.

Now I don't play NL20 and I have no idea how light people get it in there on average but I think it's rarely terrible to stack off here. And definitely 3bet-folding is the worst option. Either cold-call or 3bet-push depending on how comfortable you are stacking off here pre.

[mchilger]

I agree with Fenris, if you 3-bet, you should be ready to go all-in. Cold-calling is an option here as check-raising a favorable flop is a pretty good play with these stack sizes.

Matthew

[Harlequin99]

That way you turn your AK into a bluff and you would be way better polarizing your range if you wanted to 3bet-fold.

...

Now I don't play NL20 and I have no idea how light people get it in there on average but I think it's rarely terrible to stack off here. And definitely 3bet-folding is the worst option. Either cold-call or 3bet-push depending on how comfortable you are stacking off here pre.

I am primarily a limit player and this was my second ever NL session. In this type of situation I have no problem putting my stack in if it the best thing to do but I am still getting used to this type of situation. I have called all-in three bets twice subsequently to this with AK and both time my opponents had A6. In this case, I didn't feel there was any fold equity giving him a $11.25 call into a $29 pot and felt due to the preflop passiveness at the table I was highly likely to be dominated, small underdog or splitting the pot. Paying $17 to win 23% didn't feel worth it. His size of bet affected me too, I think I might have called an all-in but a smaller raise felt like it wanted a call...

So the moral of the story is to get my money in with AKs preflop unless I have a compelling reason not to?

I agree with Fenris, if you 3-bet, you should be ready to go all-in. Cold-calling is an option here as check-raising a favorable flop is a pretty good play with these stack sizes.

I didn't cold-call as I didn't fancy playing it out of position. You suggest check raising all-in any A or K or flush draw on the flop? Should I fold other flops? Presumably you mean the stack sizes are good for this as they are relatively small?

[jmbreslin]

OOP with AKs facing a raise from a TAG player and a cold call I'm pretty much always flat-calling. I don't want to build a big pot that I'm going to have to play out of position against possibly more than one opponent. This is a great spot to trap your opponent(s) if you flop big, but gives you an escape if you miss.

Also, you have to make sure that if you're going to 3-bet big hands, you should throw in a 3-bet now and then with a weaker hand. Otherwise your opponents will have a very easy time putting you on a range when you do 3-bet.

Unlike Fenris, I'm not usually prepared to get it in preflop w/ AKs (especially against a TAG raiser). This isn't tournament poker where people are much looser with their stacks and you often have no choice but to get it in as a coinflip dog. The beauty of cash NLHE is that you can afford to wait until you're the fav to get it in preflop.

[Fenris78]

I really can't speak for NL20, so maybe cold-calling is the best option here (with 3bet-pushing still being way better than 3bet-folding). In 6max usually you can count on never being too far behind when getting AKs in PF. The biggest asset of the hand is that it reduces the combos of AA and KK by 50%, which are the only hands you are really afraid of. Also you are always in need of extra hands to play strongly PF to widen your range. Otherwise you will never get action on your strongest hands if you 3bet those exclusively (well, probably not at NL20, but i still think it's something to keep in the back of your kind).

At NL100+ getting it in PF with AKs is probably the only option in this spot unless you have an excellent read. I don't really like to play a single-raised 3-way pot OOP with a hand that makes one pair hands.

[Dogs]

I asked a similar question a while back, and the responses can be see here:

http://www.internettexasholdem.com/poke ... 62945.html

Since I made that thread, I've played 20k hands at 25NL 6-max, and am amazed by the ranges that people will play. I now have no reservations stacking off with AK pre-flop unless I have a very strong read.

In this situation, it seems unlikely he's going to fold pre. I quite like Matthew's line of cold-calling, but with a player with those stats I'd be tempted to play a stop-and-go and shove your stack regardless of the flop. A lot of tight players at 25NL have a range they won't fold pre-flop then play fit-or-fold post flop, and I think you'd have a better chance of taking the pot uncontested this way.