ITH Poker Forum

[leep]

New member here, Im Lee from the UK

I've been playing poker on and off for a couple of years, but last few months I've really took to improving my game and playing much more frequently.

I got the website from the "WInning Poker Tournaments One Hand At A Time Vol 1"

Hoping to learn a lot and improve my game

[Piscivorous]

Welcome to ITH. Ask questions, get answers, post hand histories and become a part of the friendliest poker on the internet.

- Pi

[Flsnookman]

FNG here. Been playing poker about a year but only recently have I tried to improve my play in a serious way. The reason I joined was because of the play of one of your mods in the WBCOOP. I welcome the opportunity to improve but when people are calling raises with any two cards its seems more like bingo than poker. Are gut shot straight draws really worth a call? I dont know but if anyone want to answer I would be grateful. When supposed "good" players play like this and win it makes me think poker is way, way more luck than skill. I know all about variance and random numbers but I see it all too often. Dont believe me??ament #339187692, Freeroll Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2011/01/27 14:31:29 ET
Table '339187692 66' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: ProBlackbird (2660 in chips)
Seat 2: perisher (3650 in chips)
Seat 3: Sztarszoi (3545 in chips)
Seat 4: FLsnookman (3630 in chips)
Seat 5: Blade565 (2850 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 6: Murtas (2235 in chips)
Seat 7: Piscivorous (3160 in chips)
Seat 8: BooKeR-rbw (2765 in chips)
Seat 9: Kiff1983 (2505 in chips)
BooKeR-rbw: posts small blind 25
Kiff1983: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to FLsnookman [Ah Kc]
ProBlackbird: folds
perisher: folds
Sztarszoi: folds
FLsnookman: raises 100 to 150
Blade565: folds
Murtas: folds
Piscivorous: calls 150
BooKeR-rbw: calls 125
Kiff1983: folds
*** FLOP *** [3h Ad Kh]
BooKeR-rbw: checks
FLsnookman: bets 375
Piscivorous: calls 375
BooKeR-rbw: folds
*** TURN *** [3h Ad Kh] [5c]
FLsnookman: bets 937
Piscivorous: raises 937 to 1874
FLsnookman: calls 937
*** RIVER *** [3h Ad Kh 5c] [2s]
FLsnookman: checks
Piscivorous: bets 761 and is all-in
FLsnookman: calls 761
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Piscivorous: shows [4s 2d] (a straight, Ace to Five)
FLsnookman: shows [Ah Kc] (two pair, Aces and Kings)
Piscivorous collected 6520 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 6520 | Rake 0
Board [3h Ad Kh 5c 2s]
Seat 1: ProBlackbird folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: perisher folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Sztarszoi folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: FLsnookman showed [Ah Kc] and lost with two pair, Aces and Kings
Seat 5: Blade565 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Murtas folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Piscivorous (button) showed [4s 2d] and won (6520) with a straight, Ace to Five
Seat 8: BooKeR-rbw (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 9: Kiff1983 (big blind) folded before Flop

[Piscivorous]

Flsnookman, happy you joined!

It was a purely positional play based on the book by Snyder entitled: Poker Tournament Formula.

When it folds to a raiser who raises with a standard raise and no one calls when the action is to your button, call the raise with any two cards. You have position on him and any of the blinds who may come in.

If you miss the flop entirely, you can fold to the imminent continuation bet. Certainly I flopped a gutshot. When you c-bet, I called with the gutshot figuring you for an Ace and possibly AK. I figured if you did have a strong hand and I hit my gutshot, I could double. It worked out that way. If I miss the turn, I fold and still have 2K in chips and 40BBs.

Sorry for the beat, but it happens.

[Flsnookman]

Another book to add to the list. Did I raise to little at the start? I know I misread your raise as ace rag but what size raise would have pushed you off the hand? Just curious, appreciate the response and look forward to the book. Thanks.

[Piscivorous]

Another book to add to the list. Did I raise to little at the start? I know I misread your raise as ace rag but what size raise would have pushed you off the hand? Just curious, appreciate the response and look forward to the book. Thanks.

Any number of things would have gotten me off the hand preflop. Someone calling between us, someone limping before your raised. If you'd have stuck in 250 or more, I'd have folded. Likewise, if you'd have bet more than 375 on the flop I might have folded because the small blind was still in. The flop bet felt like a weak ace or perhaps a pair of tens. Something that I might be able to bluff off the pot if I miss the 5 and that looks scary.

I really, however, don't think you played it bad. 3x preflop raise is standard. There was a lot of things that had to go against you and they did. I took a shot and it paid off.

Karma reached up and bit me on the backside, however. I got into a 4-way all-in preflop vs two bigger stacks and a really short stack. I had AA, the two bigger stacks had KQ and QQ, while the shortstack had 77. Flop came Q97 and I was out.

Good luck at the tables and hope to see you around!

[Damien]

Flsnookman, happy you joined!

It was a purely positional play based on the book by Snyder entitled: Poker Tournament Formula.

When it folds to a raiser who raises with a standard raise and no one calls when the action is to your button, call the raise with any two cards. You have position on him and any of the blinds who may come in.

If you miss the flop entirely, you can fold to the imminent continuation bet. Certainly I flopped a gutshot. When you c-bet, I called with the gutshot figuring you for an Ace and possibly AK. I figured if you did have a strong hand and I hit my gutshot, I could double. It worked out that way. If I miss the turn, I fold and still have 2K in chips and 40BBs.

Sorry for the beat, but it happens.

Hey Pi-

I have PTF 1&2 but never felt entirely comfortable adding this move into my arsenal on a regular basis (especially with 42o!!). Are you doing it often and do you feel that it is +EV?

[Piscivorous]

Flsnookman, happy you joined!

It was a purely positional play based on the book by Snyder entitled: Poker Tournament Formula.

When it folds to a raiser who raises with a standard raise and no one calls when the action is to your button, call the raise with any two cards. You have position on him and any of the blinds who may come in.

If you miss the flop entirely, you can fold to the imminent continuation bet. Certainly I flopped a gutshot. When you c-bet, I called with the gutshot figuring you for an Ace and possibly AK. I figured if you did have a strong hand and I hit my gutshot, I could double. It worked out that way. If I miss the turn, I fold and still have 2K in chips and 40BBs.

Sorry for the beat, but it happens.

Hey Pi-

I have PTF 1&2 but never felt entirely comfortable adding this move into my arsenal on a regular basis (especially with 42o!!). Are you doing it often and do you feel that it is +EV?

I've never really tracked how often it works. I would have to guestimate that it doesn't work often. I will say that the play breaks down into two "flavors". The first and most common being a few limps to you on the button. The second being no one limping before the raiser and no one either flatting the raiser or 3-betting him. In the first case, limping with guaranteed position I think is usually +EV, especially early in an MTT because the blinds to stack sizes make it easy to do. If the blinds are 10/20 and you have 1500 chips, sticking in 1/75th your stack is minimal. Lets say you hit and win a 300 chip pot. You're initial risk was 1/75th your stack, but the win will increase your stack by at least 10% or better dependent on how much of the pot is actually your chips. You definitely risk more in the second condition as you're calling a raise. However, unlike the first situation, you generally win bigger pots when you do hit and, like I said earlier, you can easily fold any misses.

However, the biggest reason I think it is +EV is that it gives you more opportunities to build a stack, which is the singular thesis of Snyder's system. It's no secret that bigger stacks allow you more options of what you can do.

You got me wondering, however. Ask me again in May. I think I'll track, both through HEM and by hand, my use of this and see what the results are in a 3 month period.

Edit: Also, I'm not always comfortable with it in all situations either. Maybe it's a gut reaction or insane loose raisers in the blinds which cut down on any perceived EV, but sometimes I just let it go, but I do so reluctantly.

[Damien]

Excellent. I will try to remember to check back with you in a few months and see what your results are. I certainly understand the "theory" behind why it should be profitable, I'm just wondering if it is in practice. Basically the theory says that if you can put a minimal amount of chips in and play a hand with guaranteed position, you should be able to use that position to make money over the long haul (even though you'll fold a lot when you whiff). Obviously, you still need to be pretty confident in your post-flop play when you're playing ATC. Hands that I usually stay away from, like A-Rag, would worry me. I could easily hit my Ace and be out-kicked. Also, if I understand it correctly, although you will always have position, you will never be the aggressor, so there is always the chance that you get pushed off your hand when your opponent whiffs and c-bets. Perhaps we can start another thread discussing this positional play.

[Warren]

Hi, guys I would like to poker games. Im totally new to the world of poker..
thanks