ITH Poker Forum

[hazey]

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, 26 Tournament, 15/30 Blinds (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button (t4090)
SB (t1760)
BB (t1910)
UTG (t2105)
UTG+1 (t1955)
MP1 (t1940)
MP2 (t1985)
MP3 (t2570)
Hero (CO) (t1910)

Hero's M: 42.44

Preflop: Hero is CO with ,
2 folds, MP1 calls t30, 2 folds, Hero bets t150, 3 folds, MP1 calls t120

Flop: (t345) , , (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets t230, MP1 calls t230

Turn: (t805) (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero ???


$26 Rush 135-man SNG on FullTilt. Check or bet?

Cheers
hazey

[MXRider]

Bet...way too many draws out. Checking behind on river should we get called on the turn.

[philhux]

I check and probably call a reasonable river bet.

If we get check raised here we hate our life and have to fold. Our hand isn't really that good, so I like turning it into a bluff catcher and checking.

If he checks to us on the river depending on the texture of the river card, we can think about a value bet.

[redman7027]

I also check turn and but lean toward folding to future bets. The K is right in his range. So are the 99 ant 88 for possible slow played trips. He can have AQ but will check that. I think I check fold.

[Taardvark]

I'd check behind turn and call a reasonable river bet most of the time. I might fold a spade, 6 or 7 depending on how villian bets. I am not really afraid of the king too much but I don't want to make a harder river decision for myself. I'd rather call on the river around the amount that I'd bet out on the turn. if nothing else we get some information about villian's hand.

[cowboyfan]

I'd check behind turn and call a reasonable river bet most of the time. I might fold a spade, 6 or 7 depending on how villian bets. I am not really afraid of the king too much but I don't want to make a harder river decision for myself. I'd rather call on the river around the amount that I'd bet out on the turn. if nothing else we get some information about villian's hand.

+1

Also, any reasonable bet here gives the pot and our stack the same size and it's going to be hard to get away from on the river.

[mconstab]

I think I bet because the K is a great barrel card for us as we'd bet it with all of our air plus semi bluffs so we're likely to be looked up lighter. We still bet our TT for value against any flopped pair he could have as we expect to be looked up lighter and we also get the luxury of betting to protect out hand. There's going to be a decent amount of scare cards that hit the river when we check behind, any 6,7,J,Q, A, any spade which we may be reluctant to call a bet on.

I don't mind a check behind as stated in the thread already though and to be honest depending on what mood I'm in I could go either way. Obviously a read on villain would make a decision clearer.

[hazey]

I think I would like betting if the stacks were deeper but with 805 in the pot and only 1530 behind we can't really bet without being committed.

But at the same time, the King really shouldn't have helped his hand and most hands that flopped stronger than ours probably check-raise given the number of draws out. So the only hands left are hands weaker than our own and unlikely to put more money in, or draws that we want to pay to see the river.

Which makes me think whether we can do anything about the sizing on previous streets so we can get a turn bet in?

I make it 5x over the limper to try to get as much in the pot as possible, and in the first level of these $26s people tend to limp/call like this with a whole load of trash. Then a 2/3 c-bet felt about right given the board texture.

Cheers
hazey

[mconstab]

Just bet half pot on the turn, we can still get away from our hand and we'd still have 35 blinds left.

If we check back turn and villain puts out a pot size bet we still hate life even though we're probably ahead but then if villain is aggressive bluff catching obviously becomes lucrative.

Meh, I could go either way with this hand.

[blah730235]

I mean this spot is all opponent tendencies.

Against an opponent that you can induce a river bet from a wide range if you check it back then it's obv an easy check. IOW if villain bets wiffed draws, 8x, AJ on the river then it's ok to check it back and let him draw out on you and pay him off since the times he doesn't draw out(which will be much more often) he's giving you a bet.

On the flip side if your opponent is going to play fit-or-fold with these handes on the river then bet and don't give him a chance to suck out on you since you get zero value when villain wiffs.

If your opponent is super nitty after a flop bet then you might want to pot control against him on the turn and even fold to a river bet.

Against a complete station you can bet here for value since you'll get called by all sorts of trash.


Since this is against an unknown i'd say just take your general impression of the players at your stakes and play against that.

[mconstab]

Yea it really is so dependant of a read.

Bet against a passive villain, check back against an aggro villain. Because villain limped in pre you could obviously lean towards him being a passive station type and that's literally all the read we have.

[redman7027]

Why don’t you think the K helped him? When a villain limps I usually assume they have a weaker A, Broadway cards, smaller pairs, suited connecters.

I think the K is a very bad card it either kills your action if your villain has Ax that paired, completed hands like KQ or KJ that called one continuation bet or gives a made monster hand like trips the encouragement to bet more aggressively now that villain may think you hit and will pay them off . I think I am just trying to get to the end as cheap as possible. Hoping he does not put me to the test. This is a bluff catcher type hand at best.

Maybe I am missing something.

[coolfish7]

Why don’t you think the K helped him? When a villain limps I usually assume they have a weaker A, Broadway cards, smaller pairs, suited connecters.

The K shouldn't have helped him b/c we bet the flop. Since he called the flop, there aren't many Ks in his range unless it's something like Kxss, or K9.


I really think this is a good spot to check behind.

I think I bet because the K is a great barrel card for us as we'd bet it with all of our air plus semi bluffs so we're likely to be looked up lighter

Why do we want to barrel here? We have a hand with value on a scary board. I disagree that the average player is going to be thinking that the K is a good barrel (bluff) card for our air, and as such call a second bet with a worse hand.

I think if we bet and get called, we're behind any made hand he's calling with, or ahead of a draw. But we don't know which he has. Why not turn this into a bluff catcher and call if the draws miss the river?

The reason is because if you bet here, you're checking behind almost any river. So if the same amount is going into the pot whether you bet the turn or river, then getting value after the draw bricks should be preferable, since he'll sometimes c/r semi bluff a draw on the turn and we'll have to fold the best hand. However, if he checks the river to us once the draw misses, we can be very sure we are putting money in with the best hand.

[jameseigenmann]

I guess that a lot of the value i get out of betting the turn comes from players who are drawing with quite a few outs.

[mconstab]

I think if we bet and get called, we're behind any made hand he's calling with, or ahead of a draw. But we don't know which he has. Why not turn this into a bluff catcher and call if the draws miss the river?

The reason is because if you bet here, you're checking behind almost any river. So if the same amount is going into the pot whether you bet the turn or river, then getting value after the draw bricks should be preferable, since he'll sometimes c/r semi bluff a draw on the turn and we'll have to fold the best hand. However, if he checks the river to us once the draw misses, we can be very sure we are putting money in with the best hand.

I think you get looked up by most 9's, most pairs and draw combos, and we protect ourselves against draws by betting the turn. I'd be barrelling the turn as a bluff so why not do it when we have a hand?

I think we lose value by not betting this turn. If we check back and bluff catch we hate life when villain bets any spade, 6, 7, J, Q, A. Likewise if villain checks to us on the river and any of the above cards fall we cant really value bet any of them, partly because we could be beat and partly because villain will now fold his flopped pairs that he would have possibly called a turn bet with.