ITH Poker Forum

[philhux]

Final table of the $30 1r1a on Carbon Poker - Hence no proper hand history.

4 players left and the payouts are 1st $3,000, 2nd $2,000, 3rd $1,000, 4th $800

Blinds 3000/6000
CO 260,000
Button - 56,000
SB - 235,000
BB (HERO) 215,000

Button has been frustrated and seen his stack ground down - he's raise folded with 12-13bbs twice on the final table. His range should be fairly wide shoving here, but from the way he's played, ie quite weakly, perhaps not, but then in the chatbox he's indicated furstration. Small blind is a solid and competent player from the info I have so far.

CO folds
Button all in for 56,000
SB raises to 125,000
BB ?

What should my range be for getting involved here?

[MXRider]

Agree that button should have a pretty wide range here, but with SB isolating here and he has you covered, I have to have a very premium hand to get involved here. I would say QQ+ and maybe AK. Given that we have no FE vs sb at all and the fact that he didn't shove over button, I think he has a super strong hand.

[the_hawk]

What mx said. Your calling range is pretty darn tight here.

[nsidestrate]

I might be losing it, but I don't think his range is particularly strong here at all. I'd be more scared if he flat called. If I'm the SB, I'm going to assume that Button is extremely wide, probably top 50% or more. Therefore, I'd try to isolate with probably something like any pair, any suited Ace and any two broadway.

I'm not sure how willing you are to go broke here, but I think MX is wrong that SB is strong here. I'm probably shoving 88+/ATs+/AJ+/KQs, but I'm more aggro than most of us.

[poker_Elmo]

I'm not sure how willing you are to go broke here, but I think MX is wrong that SB is strong here. I'm probably shoving 88+/ATs+/AJ+/KQs, but I'm more aggro than most of us.

SB could be strong, but could also be trying to isolate with a weak hand A-rag. throw in the fact that he should just call with AA - folding JJ, etc. is too tight IMO. I think nside's range is about right.

[the_hawk]

Pissing 35bb with ATs, AJo, KQs or 88 is lunacy here.

[poker_Elmo]

If you're willing to fold 88 here you will get run over four-handed.

I think I might fold the AT and perhaps the KQ, but everything else is going in the middle.

Another way to think about this - if you are the sb, what hands do you reraise with? The button has 9 big blinds - almost nothing, right? I would actually reraise tigher from most here from the sb because I have to worry about the bb. I would still reraise any pair, A7+ (possibly lower), and KQ.

Against this range, I would be pushing my AJ or 88. I fold my 77 (probably), but don't like it. I think many players will be a bit looser than me from the sb.

I assume those who disagree with me and nside assume sb has a tigher range, right?

[poker_Elmo]

Another consideration - 4th and 3rd pay almost the same but there are huge jumps for 1st/2nd. Makes me a bit more willing to gamble as the 3rd shortest stack. Not a major jump, but perhaps this makes me more likely to include 77 in my range.

[philhux]

I definitely think this particular pay structure and this situation means that you should widen your range a few notches as it is so heavy for the top two.

Will reply again in a day or two, but I'm enjoying the discussion so far!

[redman7027]

What does 5th place get paid or do only 4 get paid? The payout structures us very interesting and is a huge component in my decision.

If you call and both you and the button lose do you split 4th or win because you have a larger stack? I am not sure how this works? You probably split.

I am not sure why SB did not push all-in the answer to this question is very important. He could have a monster hand but not necessary.

It is 5 handed if he is any good he should be playing almost any pair most A’s and maybe even some Broadway cards.

I call with AJ+ and 55+ and push all flops. He may even fold on the flop trying to make sure he gets 4th and win $800. I might even play much wider if he is not super tricky or is he is a nit and is more likly to fold a missed flop.

I can also see just pushing all in pre-flop with AJ+ and 55+ but as previously suggested you don’t have much fold equity pushing preflop by calling and pushing all flops may be you gain some fold equity.

Although I believe Hank is a very good player I disagree with him on this one.

[nsidestrate]

I can also see just pushing all in pre-flop with AJ+ and 55+ but as previously suggested you don’t have much fold equity pushing preflop by calling and pushing all flops may be you gain some fold equity

Only if he is not very bright.

[leofric]

Since I recently shoved AQ in a similar situation and then thought I shouldnt have I'm probably way too tight here!

The raise size puzzles me though - if he had AA and wanted you along he'd surely flat call? Then again the raise leaves almost no FE if you shove. Personally I dont think he's that strong at all so AJ+ 88+ seems probably about right.

[philhux]

the payouts were 5th paid 600 but we are 4 handed here

[philhux]

I can also see just pushing all in pre-flop with AJ+ and 55+ but as previously suggested you don’t have much fold equity pushing preflop by calling and pushing all flops may be you gain some fold equity

Only if he is not very bright.

This is the merge network!

[the_hawk]

If there's a play worse than shoving 88 or AJ, a stop & go with 55 (or AJ) is surely it.