ITH Poker Forum

[Radford]

This is from a live tournament. It's a £100 tourney with about 200 runners. There are around 130 left with blinds at 150/300.

The table has been playing generally tight. With a few hands being took down pre-flop with a min raise. I have been pretty much card dead the whole tournament.

It is folded around to the button.

Button: 5.5k
SB: 12k
BB (Me): 5.5k

The button limps. The SB completes.

I look down at

The button is really passive and has limped in several times and folded to raises pre getting 5/1. The SB is really tight. I have a very tight image. So does anyone seriously contemplate pushing here? I really can't see either of them calling. Or does anyone just push here with something decent? Or at least suited or connectors? I mean how often are either of these calling? Very slim right? Even if one of them does call, i probably have two live cards.

Thoughts?

[poker_Elmo]

Checking is OK, obviously, but if you are considering a push, why not just make a small instead. If they fold to small raises, 1000 should do the trick. That also gives the opportunity to bet again on the flop and give the button/sb a 2nd chance to fold.

This is the type of stuff I have learned from ChrisJP and it has helped me vs. weak live fields. Against non-tricky players, you can leave yourself two chances to get them to fold, and can remain in the tournament if for some reason they were trapping.

[chrisjp]

LIve:

No way I push here. Your M>10 which is monstrous live lol. You have so much more folding equity live so you can make small raises and get away if they play back. With this hand I might make a small raise, but likely no. I'd much rather bet 1K on a non A or K flop and try to take it down there. Certainly what elmo suggests is a viable option. Two bets can really scare them. Even if they have like AQ preflop, when they don't hit the flop they likely fold. So a preflop bet and a c/b can do the job. But you can keep them small to survive if they don't fold.

Even if you have a nice all in type hand pre, like JTs, I still would only raise to 1K pre and fold to a 3bet. That's live....where you can have 5BBs and still have folding equity. Did you see this hand from my Caesar's tournament?

We are playing 600/1200a100. I have exactly 6300. I’m otb. It folds to the CO, a typical scared old timer, and he limps. He’s got a lot more chips than me though. What do I have? J9s. Could I possibly have FE here? Maybe, maybe not. But this limp gives me some protection from my nemesis. I say “All in.” Folds to my nemesis in the BB and he goes into the tank. He finally folds. Now CO goes into the tank. He’s in agony. I mean the math is ridiculous. There is 2700 preflop plus his 1200 plus my 6200 or 10,100. It’s 5000 to call. But he folds. Yippee. Afterwards <BB> says, “I had AT but you put me in the squeeze.” Well that’s a bunch of bull since he knows he can reraise me to isolate. So he had something weaker than that, but who knows. Not to be outdone I told him: “Good laydown though, I had JJ.”

How about these from Venetian--from my report:

But I’m still short. Over a period of 40 minutes three similar hands come along. It folds to me in the SB and I 3x raise with 42o. BB folds.
It folds to me in the SB and I min raise with J9o. BB folds. I mean why risk extra chips?
It folds to me in the SB and I min raise with Q6s. BB says, “This is the third time you’re doing this to me.” And folds. These were huge for me and my M=5. Now online you are pushing all of these three, maybe folding 42o. But live is completely different. Viva "live"!

Anyway you can employ small ball successfully live if the villains are non tricky and tight.

One last absurd one from Caesar's:

I’m on fumes again, less than 10BBs. It folds to me in the SB. Now BB is your typical old scared player. I look down and see 85o. Wonderful! Push here? No way. I min raise knowing I can safely fold to a push. But he calls. Oops!
Flop: 654 rainbow.
Nice flop! Now I bet half my stack. A weird wimpy looking bet to be sure, but I just wanted him to fold. I’m certainly committed but it looks like I’m strong with a small raise pre and now a small bet. Anyway he goes into the tank. Finally he folds, flashing me a 6. Whaaaa? That is truly amazing, but I’m delighted to see it of course.

Chris

[leofric]

I remember someone recently telling me never to try squeezing with no hand so I should be

But I do like Elmo/Chris's idea of a smaller raise, if they are both that tight and you're image is solid shouldnt it have the same effect whilst only risking 20% of your stack as opposed to your tournament life?

If we put in another 1k we only need them to both fold 50% to make this reasonable. From what you say this looks likely.

Personally I'm more likely to make a play like this with some antes in the middle as well but I'm sure its ok here

[Radford]

I did indeed raise. I didn't push though. I can't remember exactly what i raised to. But it was something like 1,200. I did consider just shoving. But i felt a standard raise would 'look' better. The button folds. But the SB calls.

Flop:

What's your play?

[poker_Elmo]

Check flop. Min or small bet on turn if checked to - over bet river.

[chrisjp]

Check flop. Min or small bet on turn if checked to - over bet river.

+1 great minds think alike

[Radford]

Don't you think checking looks fishy?

[poker_Elmo]

Don't you think checking looks fishy?

to a good player, yes. To a live player, maybe, but I think they'll fold anything but pairs here now. You have to assume the average live player is thinking 1/2 levels below the average online player.

If they have, say, KJ and hit a J on the turn/river, however, you may bust them by this action.

[chrisjp]

Don't you think checking looks fishy?

Sure, but you still have to give them a chance to catch up. They are going to have a hard time folding if they hit a pair on the turn. Give them a chance to do so. They could easily think you have two overs here. I'm not saying they should, but the average player will be suspicious, but not suspicious enough to fold a medium/high pair on the turn. You don't have a large stack so certainly you could have just been stabbling preflop (which you were). Maybe they will conclude you just gave up and even call you on the turn with Ace high, esp if a low or middle card hits on the turn.

In any event, give them more of a chance to hit something if they don't already have a pair, which is quite unlikely.

I guess I should have said, "What elmo said".

[leofric]

Don't you think checking looks fishy?

Always assumed the standard default line was to check flopped quads