ITH Poker Forum

[Damien]

Forget about the iffy preflop for a minute... Once I get involved in this hand, is there anything wrong with my line? I take the flop donk bet to mean that he's got maybe A7 or something like that,I call for pot control... I might be ahead and maybe I can still hit a set. Turn blank, check-check. River sure looks like a value bet and its starting to look like he's got a Queen (or maybe he just rivered a gut-shot), should I be folding to a less than one-third pot bet here or is this River call ok?

Should I just be folding this on the flop? This villain apparently likes to bet 1/3-pot... I can't fold to such a small bet can I?

Full Tilt Poker $21,000 Guarantee (Rebuy) No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t80/t160 Blinds - 9 players - View hand 1261201
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

MP1: t5205 32.53 BBs
MP2: t5440 34 BBs
CO: t9600 60 BBs
BTN: t14643 91.52 BBs
SB: t4185 26.16 BBs
BB: t3999 24.99 BBs
UTG: t5690 35.56 BBs
Hero (UTG+1): t9660 60.38 BBs
UTG+2: t5690 35.56 BBs

Pre Flop: (t240) Hero is UTG+1 with 9 : 9 :
1 fold, Hero raises to t440, 2 folds, MP2 calls t440, 2 folds, SB calls t360, 1 fold

Flop: (t1480) 7 : 5 : Q : (3 players)
SB bets t480, Hero calls t480, MP2 folds

Turn: (t2440) 3 : (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

River: (t2440) 4 : (2 players)
SB bets t800, Hero calls t800

[chrisjp]

Love the way you played it to the river. The 4 sucks especially if he has 76 which he might. His bet size looks like he's got you but no folding better than middle pair after the turn gets checked through. I agree with you that the donk bet on the flop looks very suspicious, although some real tricky players might lead with middle or bottom set there.

I'm certainly raising preflop too.

You would have to know that villain is a real nit to consider any other line.

Chris

[the_hawk]

Agree with chris in all respects.

I'd be glad that the river bet is only 1/3 pot. It's when it's 3/4 to pot (or even overbet, which happens) that you start to hate life - partly because the bigger bet looks bluffier. Any time the river bet is that small after turn ck-ck and you have less than a very nice hand, be thankful IMO.

[leofric]

If I was being hypercritical I might usually raise 3x from ep with hands like this but its no more than a matter of taste. Personally I hate playing OOP so would prefer to discourage callers but I know others disagree.

Other than that +1 to Chris and Hawk's comments

[Radford]

Iffy pre-flop? There's nothing wrong with it. You raised first in with a decent PP. Sounds standard to me.

I kind of like the way you played it. I'm not folding to a less than 1/3 pot bet on the flop with second pair. Your nines could easily be good here. I like your check on the turn too. Betting is kind of spewy and controls the pot as you say. It would be disastrous for you to bet, only for villian to raise. Forcing you to fold.

On the river i think i just gotta call. And probably sigh at the same time

[Damien]

Iffy pre-flop?

I really thought that pocket nines were borderline to play in UTG+1 when I posted this... glad to hear that its really not. When I first started playing, I played limit cash and used Matthew's charts... I seem to remember that the EP ranges were pretty tight. My preflop ranges will always be a work in progress...

[leofric]

In a cash game where you have all the time in the world then you should probably play tighter. In a MTT with blinds increasing all the time then you can loosen your range. Stack sizes also become relevant - even stages of the tournament. All this makes hand ranges much more a feel than a rigid set of rules.

[Radford]

Iffy pre-flop?

I really thought that pocket nines were borderline to play in UTG+1 when I posted this... glad to hear that its really not. When I first started playing, I played limit cash and used Matthew's charts... I seem to remember that the EP ranges were pretty tight. My preflop ranges will always be a work in progress...

God no. Folding 99 first in here is dreadful if you ask me. And way wayyyyyy too tight.

[Damien]

God no. Folding 99 first in here is dreadful if you ask me. And way wayyyyyy too tight.

So of course the obligatory question... what would be the bottom of your range in this hand (assuming we never limp)? Pocket sixes? Fives?

[Radford]

I suppose it depends on your stack size really. But since i play really aggro. I'm raising all sorts of hands here. Even from UTG. I will raise suited connectors, suited gappers, all pocket pairs. high cards. etc..But you only raise these types of hands if you are confident on your post-flop play. It's no good raising here with these types of hands if you cannot get away from top pair.
Yeah it's a risky strategy. But that's what playing aggro is all about

[Damien]

I'm pretty confident in my post-flop play in general, but my style is certainly not as aggro as yours. Can't see myself raising KJo or pocket threes from UTG, that's for sure!

[philhux]

Damien - Aside from opening a shade smaller, I would have played the hand exactly the same as you - and yeah, the sigh river call for sure...

[scottishben]

Personally I have no problem with the way you played the hand. It is a bit passive to be sure but you do not really know where you are in the hand and it is hard to second guess the opponent as there are potentially a wide range of hands he could have - some of which you beat and some of which you dont.

If you have built up solid reads on the guy then you might be able to deviate from the standard way you played this by raising the flop or betting the turn or perhaps even folding the river but without clear reads to show a positive edge from a different play then you have to play it as you did. I would not worry too much about the river call - you only need to win here a moderate percentage of the time for this to be the right play.

[ImBetterDude]

I dont feel the hand was misplayed. However, my inclination...especially considering your large stack...is to raise to 1600 or so on the flop. My reasoning is that all hands beneath a strong Q would let it go, or at least would be making a mistake by calling. I think this is a stronger line and really forces your opponent into a tough decision. My intuition is the weak lead signified a mid pair or weak queen, or possibly some kind of draw. However, raising would really settle it on the flop.

If the raise gets repopped, we clearly fold. If called, which would be ominous, we would have to give up and hope for showdown I think. If called and a weak river bet is donked out we would be in a tough spot but thats unlikely, as a value bet would be more like half pot which we could fold to.

Essentially, why not bet the amount (or slightly more) on the flop, where we take initiative and force the action, where results are likely better than calling same amount on the river? The flop seems like where our hand is most likely to be best, and likewise where his is probably most vulnerable.