ITH Poker Forum

[Outlier]

$1 Rebuy Rush Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em Tournament, 100/200 Blinds 20 Ante (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop

Button (t15985)
SB (t8540)
BB (t19050)
UTG (t20900)
UTG+1 (t9080)
MP1 (t3210)
MP2 (t2244)
MP3 (t33505)
Hero (CO) (t16874)

Hero's M: 35.15

Preflop: Hero is CO with ,
UTG bets t600, 4 folds, Hero calls t600, 3 folds

Flop: (t1680) , , (2 players)
UTG bets t1000, Hero calls t1000

Turn: (t3680) (2 players)
UTG bets t2000, Hero calls t2000

River: (t7680) (2 players)
UTG bets t4600

hero??

No read on villain as it was a large field rush tournament.

[Zenjo]

Why on earth aren't you 3 betting preflop? Your opponant raised UTG and probably has a strong hand. Get the chips in the pot asap.

Raise the flop.

Raise the turn.

You should never be at the river. Make life easier for yourself in future.

[the_hawk]

What zenjo said. As played probably ship river.

[Outlier]

I guess my bigger question here is about how one should adjust one's game when deeper stacked. Having a 80 BB is a pretty big stack for me in the middle stages of a tournament.

If I had 40 BB or less, I would definitely raise and re-raise as you suggested and gotten my stack in on this board. It's just that an overpair felt a little light with which to stack off 80 BB--is that wrong thinking? I've read a fair amount about good players playing big pairs more conservatively when deep stacked and am trying to figure that out a little better.

Would you play 150 or 200 BB the same way?

Are you getting away from this hand on this board before the river if you raised on any of the previous streets and got reraised?

What could villain be firing on the river that I beat--anything? In hindsight, it seemed villain's range was awfully narrow by the river.

[Zenjo]

With anything under 100BB in a tournament it's fine getting your stack in preflop with KK. You'll end up against all sorts of rubbish, and it's just unlucky if you run into AA.

With 150-200BB you have to be more careful. But unless you're playing high buyin, deep stacked events you won't need to worry about learning to play with this size stack. The blinds increase so frequently in low buyin tournaments that you won't have a deep stack for long. It's more important to know how to play with shorter stacks.

Are you getting away from this hand on this board before the river if you raised on any of the previous streets and got reraised?

No. He could have QQ, JJ, Tx, a flush draw or maybe even something else. You're ahead of all of these.

[Radford]

What zenjo said. As played probably ship river.

I don't see any reason to ship the river. Even with a king high flush. I can only see villian calling a push with an ace high flush. Even with a queen high flush, i can't see him calling.

Personally, i think the whole hand was played way too passively. Pre-flop isn't that bad. But on the flop, you just have to raise this. You can't possibly flat call on the turn either.

[redman7027]

Radford, I am very surprised by your assertion that pre-flop is not that bad? It seems the worst to me. Please explain your reasoning. I ask because I respect your opinion.

I agree the hand was played very bad on all streets. I call the river but am kicking myself for being such a donkey.

[Newbatron]

I think the reason behind flatting with big pairs is firstly say you had JJ and a good solid reg opens UTG then JJ isnt crushing his range. If you 3 bet with these stack sizes (80bbs) you lose all the value of your hand as you'd have to fold to a 4 bet, he'd also be smart enough to realise that 3 betting an UTG raise from solid player is strong and he'll fold his weaker holdings that u had crushed. Secondly against good players you have to a bit of deception to your play and smooth calling raises with big pairs like JJ or QQ keeps all the hands that you beat in his range i.e AK,AQ,TT. Also if someone behind you has been squeezing regularly then you can trap them. Anyone feel free to correct any of the above if im wrong but thats what I assume.

Here in a $1 rebuy I wouldnt give this guy any credit to being a good player unless proved otherwise. He will prob 4 bet with loads of hands, ive seen plenty of players get 100bbs with like KQ or 55. Just get it in. Also I dont see him folding to a 3 bet pre so just get as much in as possible he obviously likes his hand after opening.

[Taardvark]

I agree that preflop isn't terrible. Not sure how close we are to the rebuy being over. I assume just past it. If that is the case, players usually haven't adjusted and continue to overplay hands. if that is the case walking the dog makes sense. You also might get someone behind to squeeze preflop.

If the rebuy has been over a little while, I probably just three bet this. We have a monster and villian has some kind of hand to be raising UTG. Villian might very well 4 bet AK or QQ here. Getting 80BB in preflop here is rarely bad.

[Outlier]

Really appreciate the input. Like I said, I'm trying to get a feel for how to play a bigger stack--I was thinking 80 BB was big enough not to put it all on the line with an overpair, but it sounds like I should be over 100 BB before thinking about this.

Turns out the hand was a bit of a cooler. I made a crying call and ran into A-Ad.

I was wondering about whether I could have gotten away from the river. I'm just thinking about what villain would fire all three streets with, esp on river, when his bet sizing seems quite eager (he did deliberate more before firing the river compared to flop and turn), and the board is scary--would he do this with Q-Qd? J-Jd? I guess if he were very spewy, he could have done it with Ad-K and gotten there on the river. In hindsight, it seems the only hand he might bet this way that I beat is the Q-Qd, but perhaps my thought process is based too much on the actual hand he showed down rather than what I could reasonably deduce.