ITH Poker Forum

[cowboyinexile]

I just want to state for the record that I did not feel good about this hand. I was actually kinda embarrassed to show down. When I did, the room fell dead silent and the player with KK actually looked sick. It was a weird feeling. Like I'd just murdered somebody and got away with it, while helpless bystanders looked on.

You got lucky, but I wouldn't feel bad about this. Guy with KK got a little too cute with his hand and it cost him.

Your image was pretty tight, but if he comes over the top preflop, he wins a decent pot. He could go something like t200K and still have fold equity if you shove on him and he is sure you have AA. Instead of being smart and trying to isloate a single opponent with a big pocket pair, he tried to trap two players in the hand.

He flatted pre and checked the flop, so I'm thinking he was going to check raise you here, but you checked back which confused him. If he leads out here, there is a good chance he takes down the pot. He didn't and the turn was a gin card for you. No way he puts you on a 4, so lucky for you and goodnight for him.

Congrats-I agree with everyone who said the hand could have been played better, but we all get lucky at times. Winning a decent tourney is 50% skill, 50% avoiding idiots getting lucky and in turn getting lucky when you are the idiot. In your mind, you played the hand like an idiot. The guy who lost is probably thinking the same thing.

[chrisjp]

I wouldn't feel bad about the hand at all. I'd feel great! I wouldn't feel good about the way I played it--but that's over with and I'll try to put that out of my mind unitl the tournament's over. But you can win this hand by bluffing, or you can win the hand by sucking out when you get caught. OK it was the latter, nothing wrong with that.

And like you said you got the added benefit of having to reveal that you are "crazy", and that is going to throw them off the rest of the way. Now you go back to playing your normal game, but they don't know that.

Carlos Mortensen was at my table during a WSOP prelim. He raised preflop and got called by the BB. He pushed the flop with 63cc on K72 with one club. He got snap called by AA. Board went runner runner club and he knocked the guy out. I guarantee you he was happy as a lark.

The main point is not to let this rattle you the rest of the way at the final table, and to use the fact that you were willing to play this unusual holding to your advantage.

Chris

[Radford]

I think villian played KK pretty well imo and he got extremely unlucky.

In future though i would keep clear of these crappy hands. As you see from the result, a king high flop, 2 pair or even a 234 flop would quite possibly cost you your whole stack just because you fancied getting frisky with K4o.

[chrisjp]

I think villian played KK pretty well imo and he got extremely unlucky.

I don't know about this. When he flats that is screaming a HUGE hand, like AA or KK. Of course depends upon your read of the player. If he's loose or clueless maybe not. I know it is worth taking risks by flatting with a big hand sometimes, but I don't think this is one of them. When you are in the blinds the disadvantage of position can really cost you. Look what happened here. If the KK had been on the button then he could have bet the flop. Here he went for the c/r, nothing wrong with that, but being out of position cost him big time.

At the Venetian last month I had KK in the big blind. There was a raise and a reraise to me. Well I felt I had to 4-bet here. Yes, I'm giving away a big holding, but I'm doing that anyway by flatting. I 4-bet and they both folded. Is that really so bad?

Chris

[redman7027]

I was being kind of a jerk and trying to be funny. Sorry I actual felt bad after submitting my post.

I do understand the logic playing junk hands for deceptive reasons sometimes but thinks vs. an UTG+1 who is short is it not a good idea. You don’t have the potential payout when primary villain is short to justify the risk. I also try to choose hands that have 2 cards that can hit and will not be dominated. The K with bad kicker has negative possibilities because if you hit it you do not know is you are in the lead as an UTG+1 raiser has this right in his range. I think playing like 54s 64s or even 97o are better choices. I am not recommending that in this situation either but it seems better.

[Radford]

How can you say viliian didn't play this hand well??? He got it alllin with a player with k4o who got extremely lucky.

It's plain and simple....K4o just got extremely lucky and shouldn't do it in the future.

[chrisjp]

How can you say viliian didn't play this hand well??? He got it alllin with a player with k4o who got extremely lucky.

Not really. The flop comes out 8 4 J and both KK and K4o check. The turn delivers a 4, KK bets 70k, K4o raises to 140k, KK pushes all-in and K4o calls. That's why I said KK should have put a healthy 4-bet in pre.

It's plain and simple....K4o just got extremely lucky and shouldn't do it in the future.

Well yes and no. Foux could have taken it down preflop. He didn't, he ran into a monster, and then he got extremely lucky (to flop a pair and turn trips) but that allowed him to be ahead when all the chips went in. Like Mortensen does all the time, except all the times he busts. Yes, Foux got lucky and shouldn't do it in the future....well maybe only occasionally in the future...but all the chips went in when he had a huge edge.

[cowboyinexile]

[quote="Radford"]How can you say viliian didn't play this hand well??? He got it alllin with a player with k4o who got extremely lucky.
quote]

He was way behind when he got iaround to getting it in with k4o though. If he had a 4 in the guy's range and that was what he held when the cards were shown, so be it. From the way the hand was described though, it sounds like the guy with Kings didn't see that one coming though.

I really don't like villians line with this hand. He can define his hand with a reasonable raise, and either fold and save a decent portion of his stack if he believes he is dominated, or increase his chip stack by roughly 20%. IMO, those options are better than creating a large multi-way pot where he is out of position and a check to further action post flop could put him to a difficult decision with a suddenly marginal hand. The other worst case-he makes a defining re-raise and sees two callers to the flop. If there is serious action there, at least the pot will be big enough that he can reasonably get his money in on a non-ace board.

By trapping out of position, he really screws up. Like Chris said, he gives away his hand strength just as much as if he had re-raised. Now all of the sudden, if the original raiser had something like 67 suited and was making a move like OP thought, the hand becomes more playable. You have two opponents-one who likely has a big hand and another who certainly does-the chance of tripling up puts a lot of marginal holdings back into play.

The check on the flop is equally as bad. I'm thinking he really wanted to check/raise this, but he already had a large pot and if he thought OP had a beatable hand here, led into him. If he is going to c/r, he isn't afraid to get it all in if he bets and OP raises. If he bets and OP folds, chances are, OP is going to check back and give himself a free card ( how did this hand play out?) . Guy is better off leading into the raiser here.