ITH Poker Forum

[Suited_Jock]

Background :

I am certain villain fears me I have outplayed him in any pot we have been in together we've been toing and fro'ing for about 15 mins hu. I have won the only big pot so far which brought us level. IMO this is an unbelivably hard decision.. maybe to you it looks obvious: Comments PLEASE!

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t75/t150
2 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
SB: t7680
Hero: t5820

Pre-flop: (2 players) Hero is BB with
SB calls t75, Hero checks.

Flop: (t300, 2 players)
Hero checks, SB checks.

Turn: (t300, 2 players)
Hero checks, SB checks.

River: (t300, 2 players)
Hero bets t600, SB raises all-in t7530, [color=#cc3333]Hero ?

[ezplayer]

I'd probably call. You're only behind There's a whole range of hands that could make that move including the or On the other hand, if you figure to out play him, you don't need to gamble here. Perhaps that's what the villain thought...maybe he thought it would be one of the best chances he got to take a chunk of your chips.

I would bet he doesn't have it.

[DTheater]

After thinking about this alot i think i fold it.

ask yourself, why would this player pull a huge overbet all in on the river, where only the winner goes through?

his move is stupid with any hand bar the Jh. i also think since you are the favourite and you are still close in chips, that waiting for a better opertuanity adds to the decision to fold.

[nsidestrate]

The problem I have is that he might make a huge bet with a crap hand or with the nuts. The risk that it is the nuts is too great if you think "you have outplayed him in any pot we've been in together." If that is the case, you have very little invested in this pot. Just let it go.

I might well have just check-called the river too. If you don't have him beat, he probably folds to your bet. If you do, he may make a small stab at the pot. Even if he has the , he probably doesn't put such a difficult test to you if you check. If he bets smaller, you can easily call him.

[poker_Elmo]

IMO this is an unbelivably hard decision

I agree. I also think nside is right about the total bluff or nuts. If you fold you still have 5K in chips - plenty to fight with. That makes me think a fold is in order.

However, I disagree with nside him about ch-calling, I think you have to bet here. But your double-overbet on the river screams weakness. I think because of that, he could easily be making a bluff.

In short - I don't know what to do.

[niin]

Ugh; hate hands like this.

I think I'd think for a long time then fold because I didn't know what to do, and I still have chips left. That overbet could just be a bluff, or a tricky Jh, in either case I just fold and say 'nice hand'.

Was this on the final table of the DS? Or the first round?

[nsidestrate]

I think you have to bet here. But your double-overbet on the river screams weakness. I think because of that, he could easily be making a bluff.

Plus it encourages him to think you have some kind of flush hand, so you might call his nut flush. Tough spot.

[Mecil]

Why did you double overbet the river?

Why would he re-raise all-in? If your overbet on the river screams weakness he must think he can steal it with a push...I'd therefore call.

Tp put it another way: If he feels that the only hand that you'll call his push with is one that holds the , then he has plenty of motive to do this play. You now hold the 2nd nuts and hands like that don't show up often at all-in heads-up. If he has the then say nicely played.

I'm willing to lay good odds on him not holding the nuts here and I don't think you should take it for granted that you will outplay him so massivly and make up for the 3000 chip gap between you with those blinds. Not saying that you're not a good player, just saying that odds are he is atleast ok at the game.

[ciaran]

Anyone else bet before the river here? Against a passive player (don't know what we think of this guy in that regard) I think you take the pot a fair bit of the time at low cost, and you you probably have a better chance of figuring out where your flush is on the river if that's not your first bet.

I'm not able to fold the 2nd nuts on the river here without more information that villain is capable of playing the nuts this way. I didn't think of it before, but I kind of like check-calling the river, he's much more likey to make a reasonable bet with the nuts if checked to, and there are very few hands he calls a bet/raise with anyway, and plenty he could bluff with.

[toronexti]

I think we need a read on the SB . . . otherwise I'm calling this

[chrisjp]

This reminds me of a hand that Matthew H had in the 2004 WSOP. Well a completely different hand v. Andy Bloch. But at the end Matthew made the nut flush on the river. And he made a nice bet, not an all in, and got called and won a big pot. And my point in that hand was that you should push the nuts on the river with a huge overbet precisely because that is unexpected.

This bet smells funny to me. I might very well push, if I were villain, and held the Jh. Precisely because you can get called here by a thinking opponent.

Let's say he has the Jh. If you bluffed it doesn't matter. If he puts you on a reasonably high heart a push looks like it could be a bluff and might just get called. So push with the Jh, a screwy bet, and hope that it gets called.
If he has a middle heart then I don't see him raising. If he has no heart this is super reckless. How can he have no heart? But even FossilMan made a silly raise yesterday on the final hand of the Million. But that was preflop.

Makes me think, in hindsight, that SJ's river bet was not advisable. Keep the pot smaller like cia says. You won't get stacked if he has the nuts.

I'm rambling. I fold. Would so help to have been there. Definitely a tough situation.


Chris

[niin]

Sort of (not really) reminds me of the hand between Josh Arieh and John Murphy, where Arieh made his flush on the river but it paired the board, giving Murphy a boat. I think Murphy either pushed or at least bet really big on the river... Josh thought for a very long time then folded.

In the 2005 broadcast (I think it was; it might have been in the WSOP 'Best Hand I Ever Played' broadcast) he said that while he might be good here, he still had a lot of chips if he folded, so he decided to fold. He said he wasn't absolutely convinced that Murphy hit his boat, but it wasn't worth the gamble.

[niin]

I found this link that I think is relevant.

[Seadood228]

villain fears me

I have outplayed him in any pot we have been in together

SB raises all-in t7530

I think you've already answered your own question.

[martek_reloaded]