ITH Poker Forum

[taz115]

I'm not joking, I just shove preflop in MTTs under $10 now. I honestly get called by all sorts of crap hands. I know there is a fine line between protecting your hand and value betting, but not really at the lowest limits early in MTTs. Even if you don't shove bet $300 like ChrisJP says. I play a more risky style than he does in general and would raise 150 like you did in mid-stake MTTs but in the low limits your bet size is often irrelevant to your opponents. Bet big and you'll be suprised at the crap hands that you can get value from.

I don't mind the flop shove either for the same reasons, flush draws are going call you in a $1 MTT, thats a good result for you.

[chrisjp]

Oh I didn't realize it was a $1 MTT. Don't play them but sounds like shoving pre is a decent line for sure.

Chris

[kinnipak]

Oh I didn't realize it was a $1 MTT.
Chris

Not sure if this was your intent but I am twisting this into a compliment.

[kinnipak]

I'm not joking, I just shove preflop in MTTs under $10 now. I honestly get called by all sorts of crap hands. I know there is a fine line between protecting your hand and value betting, but not really at the lowest limits early in MTTs. Even if you don't shove bet $300 like ChrisJP says. I play a more risky style than he does in general and would raise 150 like you did in mid-stake MTTs but in the low limits your bet size is often irrelevant to your opponents. Bet big and you'll be suprised at the crap hands that you can get value from.

I don't mind the flop shove either for the same reasons, flush draws are going call you in a $1 MTT, thats a good result for you.

This is the heart of my question. I could have pushed PF easily. But I was trying to get some value from the hand at this point. Then the all heart flop says "OK Kinni, get cute with Aces, grease it up Kid. Hows this fit up there..?"

My thinking was since I was first to act, I was trying to protect the aces from getting cracked. I didn't have the but I had 2 others. So I figured shoving first was the move.

[chrisjp]

Oh I didn't realize it was a $1 MTT.
Chris

Not sure if this was your intent but I am twisting this into a compliment.

Well I think the push on the flop is not as bad at these stakes since you are much more likely to get some crazy call--but still I would prefer to wait until a non heart falls on the turn. Even when they call the flop well they won't be that far behind as long as they have a heart. So pushing the flop isn't really advisable.

It's even more important to raise more or push pre though since you give them a better chance to make a mistake, and a bad one if they call a push. They are certainly more likely to call a push with some garbage at this buy in than at a higher buy in I would think.

Chris

[KKmonster]

I think you should try and let people make some mistakes

by over shoving on the flop, you're forcing too many hands to fold which you actually want them in, any half decent player will be folding top pair as they know not to go broke with 1 pair and try to find a better spot since they haven't invested much

if you bet about pot size on the flop, you could be doing it with AK/AQ that missed, 9s or 10s, this range allows someone with top pair to get stubborn and think they can push you off

if you're trying to get value from hands like AA, you have to allow them to suck out once a while, your hand will hold up more often than not
and maybe you can even get away on the turn when another heart hits and you're very sure that you're drawing dead

[kinnipak]

I think you should try and let people make some mistakes

if you're trying to get value from hands like AA, you have to allow them to suck out once a while

I can tell you that I do this probably more than I should. the problem lies in that i don't believe most players know they are making a mistake and yet the deck says, "Nice Call...here ya go." I know we want them to deaf dumb and stupid, but there is a point to where you have to take a stand and say, whoa, seen this before, not going down that road again.

FWIW, I pushed into that flop fully expecting for someone to draw at the flush, I was just praying that the aces held up. Stas say they do more often than not, I just happen to live at 123 NOT lane, NOT IL, 90120.

[the_hawk]

Stas say they do more often than not, I just happen to live at 123 NOT lane, NOT IL, 90120.

I don't remember seeing you there.

Having said that, it being inhabited by most of the population of every poker forum ever makes it a crowded place

[kinnipak]

Agreed, It just seems like my name is the only one on the Mortgage.