ITH Poker Forum

[leofric]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, 17 Tournament, 1000/2000 Blinds 75 Ante (7 handed) - Party-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP2 (t38215)
CO (t19325)
SB (t93096)
MP1 (t71943)
Hero (Button) (t49101)
BB (t27500)
UTG (t18820)

Hero's M: 13.93

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q, A
UTG raises to t18745 (All-In), MP1 calls t18745, 2 folds, [color=#CC3333]Hero ??

Final table 7 players left - usual payout structure biased towards the top three.

Obviously with just the short stack involved I'd be isolating in a flash but given the big stacks call here should I be raising? He has been consistently aggressive at this final table when first in but has folded at least twice to a reraise from me.

Calling over a third of my stack doesnt seem right at all, folding seems to tight so do I have to shove here? More interesting to me is what kind of hands would he call the short stack but fold if I reraise?

[Taardvark]

I'd fold. This feels like a bad spot for AQ. I think we probably have first in raiser beat some of the time, but I think we flip against caller quite often. We may not have all of our outs in this spot and almost certainly have to hit to win. This isn't a pot we have to get into.

We are in a good spot at the moment and I would prefer to initiate the action rather than be calling off chips here.

[redman7027]

I fold this all the time.

[leofric]

I actually shoved but I agree in the cold light of day a fold looks best.

My logic at the time was I could get the MP1 to fold (which he did!) but I'm struggling to see what he would call the original bet with but now fold. I could argue that my image should have been pretty clean up to this point but I still don't think its enough.

[coolfish7]

I think it really depends on your read of MP1 here. Is he good/bad? Tricky? I've seen players flat here with hands like 55 and ATo, then fold to a shove behind (or call the shove behind, LOL), thinking that they're ahead of the shorty shove but don't want to risk their stack with bigger ones lurking behind.

But, I've seen good player flat here with QQ+, AK a lot just to try to incite action (I'd do this as well). So it's really tough to know what the "right" thing is. Folding is probably more correct in a vacuum, given your ok position at the table chip wise with 25BB. But winning this pot would put you among the leaders, which is valuable.

Also, am I reading your blinds right - 1k/2k with a 75 ante? Is this a normal Party Poker level? What a strangely small ante....

[leofric]

I think it really depends on your read of MP1 here. Is he good/bad? Tricky? I've seen players flat here with hands like 55 and ATo, then fold to a shove behind (or call the shove behind, LOL), thinking that they're ahead of the shorty shove but don't want to risk their stack with bigger ones lurking behind.

But, I've seen good player flat here with QQ+, AK a lot just to try to incite action (I'd do this as well). So it's really tough to know what the "right" thing is. Folding is probably more correct in a vacuum, given your ok position at the table chip wise with 25BB. But winning this pot would put you among the leaders, which is valuable.

Also, am I reading your blinds right - 1k/2k with a 75 ante? Is this a normal Party Poker level? What a strangely small ante....

It is 75 ante - they start at 25 at the 400/800 level and normally progress pretty slowly. This probably explains why I still think in terms of xBBs rather than M.

I did win the pot (and the whole thing after!) so I'm not being results orientated - I just don't think its a good move given he really shouldn't be calling here without the QQ+ type hands. As played it was an awful move by him but as I said above my only reads on him were he raised a lot when first in but had already folded twice when I reraised.

[philhux]

It's a pretty ugly spot - that's for sure.

It's hard to make a decision without a read on the opponent - obviously it's terrible for him to flat and fold to a shove - but it's party! so he probably does this more often than you think you will!

I probably lean towards a fold because of the ugliness of the spot - but it's really marginal I think.

[jameseigenmann]

I guess you should fold or to move all-in but often it depends on the jump in prize money ahead. Doubling up could give you a realistic shot at the first prize, while folding puts you in the middle of the pack with several players in contention.

[ImBetterDude]

I think the shorty shove is usually pretty weak, and I think big stack knows this and is looking to call small portions of his stack to chance eliminating players. Granted, 18k out of 71k isn't necessarily chump change, but I stick to my opinion.

Knowing this, I think one has to realize that top 3 is where the money is and sack up! I'd probably go to the tank, come to the conclusion above, and find the courage to shove.