ITH Poker Forum

[MXRider]

Ok, here's the scenario. OR has been minraising on the shortstacks bb 3 orbits in a row. The flat caller is a horrid player and BB is a nit. What are your thoughts on this? Also, what are your thoughts on the bet size? BB is going to need a monster to go over me as I have shown down great hands the whole way, but I'll obviously have to call his shove.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, 3.3 Tournament, 150/300 Blinds 25 Ante (8 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (SB) (t31895)
BB (t3220)
UTG (t19772)
UTG+1 (t42910)
MP1 (t5478)
MP2 (t9073)
CO (t5240)
Button (t8770)

Hero's M: 49.07

Preflop: Hero is SB with 5, Q
3 folds, MP2 bets t600, CO calls t600, 1 fold, Hero raises to t2350

[rwjackso]

I don't know about this move, I feel like its more spewy than anything. I mean you already have a pretty big stack, why be so active when you have enough chips to wait for hands & get it in really good. But if your confident in your reads than go ahead

[Taardvark]

I agree this seems spewy. You've indicated the caller is a horrible player. I would imagine that any hand they can call $600 for they probably call the shove with also.

If opener is very active and horrible player is in most of those pots, why not wait for a spot where we have a hand?

I don't hate the mindset against the opener along with your perception of the BB, but the key player here is the horrible player.

[Radford]

I just fold. I can imagine MP2 flatting here. If he's willing to min raise, i really don't think he's folding to a re-raise of 2350.

[Foux Du Fafa]

Raise size is good. I might be inclined to bet a little more though from the SB. But anything between 3.5x and pot size (3050) is fine by me.
I don't mind the play (obviously). I'm not too sure on the math, but if you have the right read and image, and believe you are going to take the pot down a little over 50% of the time, then there is nothing wrong with this play. It doesn't matter what cards you have if everyone folds either. Obviously it's going to be better if your cards have more potential in case you have to call a shove, but if the situation and timing is too good to pass up then go for it. Only you can determine that.

[mrmudgey]

based on the info that this is a recognized move by MP2, I like it.....I think the bet size is right on

[Radford]

I'd rather do this on the button as well. If we are called, at least we have position.

[cowboyinexile]

Don't understand why you wanted to get involved here. I like your observations on everyone, but you have suited garbage oop-makes for tough post flop play. I'd say easy fold here and look for a better spot, although we have all made some sort of zen mode play like this when we were running over a table.

[philhux]

It's not an ideal play but I don't hate it - you have to try and pick up chips in these things.

The problem is I think you need to raise a bit bigger and give them less of a price. However, if you do this it is pushing you closer to committing you to call the original raiser if he goes all in.

The flat caller is an issue. He's bad but in what way? Calls too much? Doesn't understand pot odds? Spews? Plays fit or fold? I think that even if original raiser folds - he'll be calling your squeeze a lot of the time.

Now how about this - I don't hate your play too much if you go the whole hog and if one of them flat calls your squeeze then shove any flop. It's a pretty insanely aggro play but I think if you are doing this squeeze then you have to back it up on the flop - but then perhaps I'm a maniac?

[Radford]

you have to try and pick up chips in these things

Well yeah. But that doesn't mean 3-betting OOP with Q5.

[blah730235]

Horrible players don't know if K5o is good unless they see a flop!

I do commend your thinking though... it's good to be considering your options here when many people just automuck it. There are spots to be squeezing Q5s (not this one imo) and your likely to spot those if you are always considering your options.

[philhux]

you have to try and pick up chips in these things

Well yeah. But that doesn't mean 3-betting OOP with Q5.

If you haven't three bet oop with Q5 then you haven't lived!

[MXRider]

you have to try and pick up chips in these things

Well yeah. But that doesn't mean 3-betting OOP with Q5.

If you haven't three bet oop with Q5 then you haven't lived!

I'm obviously just trying to pick up the pot in this spot and my cards don't matter. Just wondering about the spot based on the info that I had at hand as it was a situational spot.

In this actual hand, BB woke up with JJ and I missed.

[Radford]

you have to try and pick up chips in these things

Well yeah. But that doesn't mean 3-betting OOP with Q5.

If you haven't three bet oop with Q5 then you haven't lived!

I've done it with much worse. But doing it this early on is way too spewy imo.