ITH Poker Forum

[BobBarker]

It seems like a simple game tell people raise my flop bet with nothing everytime thinking I have AK or they have AK AQ wanting me to fold. It was ironic because I was talking about people bluffing AK on the way to the casino. Then you wonder is there check raise in the blinds top pair with a weaker kicker or do they have two pair or a set or nothing? Should he check raise me on the flop or turn? The check raise in the big blind almost angers some people. Would you play AA KK QQ 99 AQ the same way as he did AK. Value betting river is pretty bad for him he should believe I have something, but he made me wonder about calling for a second but I trapped myself in earlier in the hand. In that other hand are you paying him off if the flush comes on the turn?

[nsidestrate]

Assuming you do bet the the turn, the decision to call down isn't that hard to figure out. Either he is being tricky with a good hand (like a set or even top pair), or he is just making a move. To get to the showdown, you need to call 2bb to win 8.5bb, so you need to be good 2 / (8.5 + 2) ~ 18%. I think you need to be very sure to fold this.

I hardly ever fold, so I know what you are saying, but I think you need to catch him bluffing more than 18% of the time, because most of the time he's bluffing he has 6 outs.

[Willem]

Assuming you do bet the the turn, the decision to call down isn't that hard to figure out. Either he is being tricky with a good hand (like a set or even top pair), or he is just making a move. To get to the showdown, you need to call 2bb to win 8.5bb, so you need to be good 2 / (8.5 + 2) ~ 18%. I think you need to be very sure to fold this.

I hardly ever fold, so I know what you are saying, but I think you need to catch him bluffing more than 18% of the time, because most of the time he's bluffing he has 6 outs.

That's true, but my poker math is a bit rusty, so I cannot immediately give you the number how often he should be bluffing. But I think we should count 4 outs for him, to compensate for the set outs we have.

[jeffnc]

I'm not following you Willem. If he has AK, we're ahead so we don't need any outs. Why would we reduce his outs?

[Willem]

I'm not following you Willem. If he has AK, we're ahead so we don't need any outs. Why would we reduce his outs?

Yes, you are right. See what I mean with rusty.

[BobBarker]

Jeff you think you have limit down as good as you can? Are you beating 8 16?

[jeffnc]

Jeff you think you have limit down as good as you can? Are you beating 8 16?

No, not as good as I can. I'm not so good at shorthanded limit against tougher players online. In other words, the adjustments you'd need to make as described in books such as "Winning in Tough Holdem Games".

But as for live 9 or 10 handed games in casinos, I can easily win any game up to 8/16 (I was winning when they had a lot of 8/16 at the Bellagio for at least 2BB/hr.) I can beat the 15/30 game there too as long as I pay attention to who's playing and don't get too stubborn and keep playing against the pros when the fish leave. I'm sure I can beat the 30/60 game there as well with table selection, since some of the same bad players I've played against play at that level. However at 30/60 there are more pros. For example Roy Cooke plays in that game and I don't fancy making any money off guys like him.

I haven't played higher than 30/60, but I'd like to play the 40/80 mixed game someday. With rake and tips, games like 2/4 are not really crushable, but sometimes the players are so bad they are still easily beatable. 4/8 and 8/16 are easily beatable everywhere I've found them.

[BobBarker]

Stubborn is my downfall its nice when you make a move back at someone and they have a flush draw instead of a set or two pair.

[jeffnc]

The subject of this thread is strangely appropriate for everyone.

[BobBarker]

Jeff you think theres fewer styles in limit than no limit because your only winning a small amount in a pot at a time? Your rasing looser than your calling a raise right? Are you limping much early position?

[jeffnc]

Your thoughts are pretty random and hard to follow for other forum readers. Please post a new thread for a single question or theme. I'm locking this one.