ITH Poker Forum

[Gerry2007]

Hello:

Beginning player (started a few years ago and gave it up and just returned). I play $0.05/$0.10 Limit. I am using Matthew's starting hand guide. The site stats indicates 50% see the flop. Notice that I see the flop around 15% of the time. Is this too tight?

I ask as I see some players at the table that seem to win are playing quite a few hands.

Thanks,

Gerry

[kinnipak]

The site stats indicates 50% see the flop. Notice that I see the flop around 15% of the time. Is this too tight?

Hi Gerry!

Firstly, Welcome to ITH! You are going to learn alot here from the players. Don't be afraid to post questions and comments. Nothing here but support and occaisional "tough love". You will be a better player for it, trust me.

As to your question, I think to properly determine if 15% is too tight, you would need to provide a lot more info. How many hands is this over? Is this one session or for all your hands played?

[Gerry2007]

Thank you.

My 15% seeing the flop would be over the last few days since I have been observing my stats on Bodog.. Each day over 100 hands played; maybe closer to 200.

Thanks for any help,

Gerry

[thew92]

A better stat to use would be VPIP. Voluntary Puts Money into Pot. Also are you playing full ring or 6 max. I know when I was playing Full Ring I was playing at about 14% VPIP. But I am at 30% VPIP at 6 max.

[the_hawk]

I am guessing that "see flop" is the stat you're getting from the lobby rather than the VPIP stat thew92 mentions (you get this from Poker Tracker or similar tracking software - and it doesn't measure the same thing although it's related).

Assuming you are playing full-ring (9-10 handed) Matthew's starting hand chart will probably bring you in at something like 18% VPIP. The "see flop" percentage would depend a bit on table conditions but should be in the region of 5-7% higher than VPIP.

That suggests that 15% "see flop" corresponds to a VPIP of 10% or so, which is pretty darn tight.

But a few hundred hands is too small a sample to be any real guide.

[Gerry2007]

Thanks for your replies.

I usually play on tables with 9 - 10 players. I don't have Poker Tracker. Today I notice I see the flop around 11% of the time.

Maybe I am misreading the charts?

Some hands seem good, like A8o in Late Position, but that is not listed in the charts, right? Or something like KTo in Middle Position? Hope I am reading it right.

Thanks again,

Gerry

[StarlightCoast]

The more important question is how do you play the hands you see a flop with and not the actual flop percentage. i refer you to my own struggles where for some reason or reasons I had slid into a passive mode of playing limit holdem and this lasted for some 75,000 hands where I dropped nearly $200 in total dating back to last year. Thank goodness for some very nice MTT scores or I would have been really hurting.

My VPIP was running about 11% and since then I run about 12.89 VPIP, but I have returned to my aggressive style and thus in the last 5000 hands i have earned $42 at the .10/.20 limit holdem tables. For all intents and purposes pretty much the same number for seeing flops, but how I am playing those hands makes a huge difference.

If your VPIP is about 10% as has been estimated, you are indeed a bit too tight as am I probably, but how are you playing those flops you see? What hands are you raising with in early, middle, and late position? what have been your results and more importantly your earn rate. What hands are you raising on the button even with 2 limpers already in? What hands are you 3 betting? These are the real questions that need answered.

Welcome to the forum.

[Gerry2007]

Thanks again.

I am just trying out Poker Tracker. Out of 102 hands my VP$IP is 7.84. Also I see the flop very little as I noted above, definitely less than 15%. One problem with this I think is that the blinds really eat away at your stack.

I am trying to follow Matthew's hand recommendations. Could it be that I am just getting lousy cards now? Or as I noted above, maybe I am misreading the charts. Today I got QT. in Early Position and the charts say you have to have QJs minimally.

@StarlinghtCoast:
I am sure my Flop play is not the best. For sure I don't know when I am beaten so I go to the end too often.

Thanks again for your help,

Gerry

[hacksaw]

Hi Gerry,

Yes, you definitely could just be getting a bad run of cards. The same thing happened to me back when I first started using PokerTracker and playing online. For my first 3 months I had something like a 12% VPiP. As I played more hands and my luck evened out that number climbed.

The flip side is also true. I've had some long sessions where I was getting great starting hands and had VPiP of 30%.

[jameseigenmann]

If someone goes over the top of you, believe them and fold. It's nice to have someone itching to go over the top of you when you do have a good hand.

[IH8Folding]

How to achieve the good hands? I know you are all expert here.

[kbrkal]

I would say that it is to tight esp. since your playing on Bodog. Bodog is known for the fish so you can get away with playing weaker hands aggressive.