ITH Poker Forum

[BobBarker]

If you play really tight you win a small amount or lose a small to decent amount and in the long run you seem to lose.

If you play really loose you go on a heater or you lose a lot but in the long run you seem to lose.

How can you find the best balance in between the two?

[nsidestrate]

There is certainly an amount of loose that is "too loose" and everyone will lose money and an amount of tight that is "too tight" and everyone will lose money, but there is a huge area in between where good players will make money. You seem to focus on the idea that specific pre-flop play is the determining factor in winning poker and I think this is a mistake in your understanding of the game. I was very successful with a VP$IP of 22% or so and I knew players who did as well as me or better who were more like 26% and some who were quite profitable at 13% of so. The difference between a player playing 13 and 26 is like night and day, but you could find winning players at both extremes.

[BobBarker]

Whats there hand range at 13 percent vs 26 percent? With the same hands they do play are they playing them similiar to each other?

[nsidestrate]

Whats there hand range at 13 percent vs 26 percent? With the same hands they do play are they playing them similiar to each other?

You make my head hurt. You can run the slider in pokerstove and see what the difference is between 13 and 26.

I suppose the similar thing is that they tend to bet when the other guy is unlikely to have connected or when they caught a better hand. In general the 13% guys will be betting more because they will have the best hand more often.

[Misunderstud]

I suppose the similar thing is that they tend to bet when the other guy is unlikely to have connected or when they caught a better hand. In general the 13% guys will be betting more because they will have the best hand more often.

I think what he meant was, do both play the top 13% in the same manner, since that comprises all the 13% guy's range but only half the 26% guy's range?

[nsidestrate]

I suppose the similar thing is that they tend to bet when the other guy is unlikely to have connected or when they caught a better hand. In general the 13% guys will be betting more because they will have the best hand more often.

I think what he meant was, do both play the top 13% in the same manner, since that comprises all the 13% guy's range but only half the 26% guy's range?

The answer to that would be no. The winning 13% player can successfully bluff at more flops were he misses than the winning 26% player. But even this has a certain amount of variability. Some winning players are more aggro post-flop than others. Even in this, there is no one winning style. However, all winning players share many post-flop commonalities -- they bet aggressively when they are mathematically likely to be ahead and they bluff more when the other player is unlikely to be able to call.

The point I'm really trying (and failing over many, many posts) to make to Bob is that it is virtually certain that he should be focused more on post-flop decision making than pre-flop decision making. At the level of detail he is focused on, there is essentially no difference between the way one plays the edge case hands. If his results aren't what he hopes, I'd be willing to bet all of Suited's money that the problem is how he handles AQ or JJ pre-flop, but how he plays post-flop.

[Misunderstud]

If his results aren't what he hopes, I'd be willing to bet all of Suited's money that the problem is not how he handles AQ or JJ pre-flop, but how he plays post-flop.

FYP (and nuke this one if you want)

[BobBarker]

Heres how I played AQ last time someone raises JJ I called with AQ suited. If I three bet he would of four bet me but if I only call here he can put me on a few specific hands but this player has never played with me so they can only come to conclusion that hes playing tight. Board Ks Js 4h he bets I raise then I hate my raise later but good thing this was a passive player thinking I was betting the turn. Turn was a blank 5c check check. River 5s hee bets I call could raise because it seems like he would have AK KQ here or KJ. This is tricky spot K 9 2 and you have JJ. This might be trickier A K 6 with JJ if the person raises your flop bet with 1010 or 99 or anyhand. 26 percent is a lot of hands played?

[nsidestrate]

If his results aren't what he hopes, I'd be willing to bet all of Suited's money that the problem is not how he handles AQ or JJ pre-flop, but how he plays post-flop.

FYP (and nuke this one if you want)

god, yes! NOT how he plays pre flop.

[BobBarker]