ITH Poker Forum

[Da_Big_Fish]

I am on a horrible losing streak. I figure it has gotten me playing horribly bad too. As for the basics I am so-so. I have horrible turn and river skills and maybe even flop play too. I'll leave those who have analyzed my hands to comment on that. While it bugs me to call myself a bad player or a losing player, I can't be content with that label. I know I can win consistently. Others have, so why can't I? It may take work but I am willing to put the blood, sweat and tears into it. I've put in so much work already and I've come to the edge of giving up so many times, so frustrated and mad at myself, that walking away would bring me comfort and peace, but I've never been about giving up. I've struggled with being mediocre all my life and that has always produced a drive in me to push myself in ways that sometimes have been good and sometimes have been bad.

While I know taken as a whole my game is pretty bad, it's not as bad as it could be. I know that the people I play against, most of them, I am a favorite to win over time. I feel like I can win on a live 2/4 table.

My new approach is to give a little more time studying the mental aspect of the game. I've caught myself many time falling into the complaining constantly, bemoaning my luck and my play. This is not the right frame of mind. Failure and success are intertwined much like Yin and Yang. One cannot exist without the other. Therefore in all my shortcomings and failures at the game lie my keys to success.

In the face all everything that's happened and continues to happen in my poker life I still come back. I still seek to learn. People call me silly for reading books. They say none of my opponents read books they play the game. They say reading and studying will do nothing for me because the micro limits online and the low limits live are just unbeatable.

I disagree. I view it as a puzzle that I haven't yet put together entirely. One day, though, things will fall in place and I will finally have the confidence technically and the mental fortitude to crush these games.

[Misunderstud]

Nice post, Da.

I think a lot of people feel, or have felt, just as you do. I've certainly been on the verge of jacking it in on a number of occasions.

I'm still hoping for that 'light-bulb' moment, too. I think I've got an energy-saving model

[blah730235]

Da, i don't know what stakes you play at the other games but at NL i think i remember you playing 10$NL, i'd highly suggest dropping to 2$NL the money will mean less and the players will be worse. Just to give an example at 2$NL FR at pokerstars th average player runs at 56/4, 5$NL 35/8 thats a huge diffrence obviously my database isn't huge but still

[Da_Big_Fish]

I dabbled with NL a while ago, but mostly I play limit. I did hit $.50/1 a couple years ago. That was my height online.

I am back down in the basement now at .02/.04 just to prove that I can win again. It's been really bad for me for about 3 months now and most of it is on me. It's not the people, the limit, the cards, but it's my reaction to all of the above.

So, I am back to trying to win 300BB before moving up.

[Willem]

Did you read books on the mental stuff? I am currently re-reading Barry Greensteins book "Ace on the River" (for the 4th time). Another good book is Tommy Angelo's book "Elements of Poker". And you can consider reading "Zen and the art of Poker".

[Da_Big_Fish]

I am finishing Zen and the Art of Poker and I've got a new one called Poker Winners Are Different by Alan N. Schoonmaker , PHD! Considered Ace on the River but it seemed a little above my level right now.

[55er]

This is just from my experience so far so take it FWIW.

I found this site, got the ITH book through a signup and played the mirco limits.I read through the book and took little things from it that helped.(I remember the discounted outs and pot odds really helping me)

I have come to realize that change at least in my game happens slowly.I tried doing many changes at once but it is hard to tell for me what was working and what wasnt.For the last year or so I just worked on tweaking rather than overhauling.I have really liked this approach.

My advice is to try to find something in your game that is a leak and devote study time on just fixing that leak.Not 10 leaks at once.

Dont know if that advice is worth anything but it really works for me.

[Hotpizza]

at least you are not blinds to the flaws in your game.

[DrZoobi]

Are you playing only online or some face to face games too?
It's important to combine your game surroundings to gain experience and confidence.
If you don't have poker buddies then try playing online poker video. It's not exactly the same but at least you get the feel of playing in front if visible people.
Other then that you can try using calculators, it can really improve your odds and maybe clarify to you how calculating odds works.

[Jhay]

Nice post. Might try it as well when I'm in a losing streak <img src="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="Very Happy" border="0" />

[Wenona]

Is it the other players or the rake beating you?

[Da_Big_Fish]

An update on this:
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<br />
My mental game is worlds better than when I made this post. I've read a lot of great books and put them into practice. Definitely, <span style="font-style: italic">Poker Winners are Different</span> and <span style="font-style: italic">The Poker Mindset</span> were the top two books that made the most difference. It took some time, but I believe the emotional aspect of the game for me is under control. That's not to say I still don't get fed up with craptacular players who suck out and hit miracles, but it just doesn't get to me like it did - water off a duck's back. <img src="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif" alt="Smile" border="0" />
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Now if I could just learn to play with any kind of skill...

[aspie8]

please read the post below.

[aspie8]

An update on this:
<br />

<br />
My mental game is worlds better than when I made this post. I've read a lot of great books and put them into practice. Definitely, <span style="font-style: italic">Poker Winners are Different</span> and <span style="font-style: italic">The Poker Mindset</span> were the top two books that made the most difference. It took some time, but I believe the emotional aspect of the game for me is under control. That's not to say I still don't get fed up with craptacular players who suck out and hit miracles, but it just doesn't get to me like it did - water off a duck's back. <img src="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif" alt="Smile" border="0" />
<br />

Hi all,
I sympathise with your original post above, as I am very much in the same position as you were Da.........I started my posts within the limit section. I too have read the mindset, zen and Tao of poker which are good books. Like yourself, I dont think I am that bad of a player to be losing 3 months str8 with blips of wins which are a fraction of the losses. Many have given advise which is great; unfortunately I find myself not improving where results are concerned.
Mentally I am at a much better place in taking beats; however, this frame of mind does not change the fact that I lose the bigger pots by a 2 or 3 outer.

The following is a routine of which I experience on a regular basis: (I wanted to try NL as yet again I went on a losing streak playing FL)
$10 NL Four Tabling so as to gain deposit bonus.

I play well, play tight, pick my spots, am aware of opponents tendencies....pot-odds and all the rest. Get off to a good start as per usual on all 4 tables, then comes situations like the big pairs.... (just to mention, I dont over play them, nor do I marry to any particular hand. I have a very good feel during each hand. Sometimes a set is no good, and other times a pair is the best hand).
Anywho, A-A in BB.....all fold to SB who Raises, I ReRaise, SB re re-raises all-in and i call......he shows 9-9 and the first card is the 9 and I kiss goodby my stack and all the hard work up until that hand. Ok, suck it up I say, part of the game. The very next hand I have K-K on another table in SB......UTG Raises...all fold to me, I RR he calls......flop comes T hi, I bet, he RR all-in I call to find A-Qo......river is the A......well done villain......
The natural train of thought as a wanabe pro would go something like (much like the poker mindset as a pro) ; "ok, this guy is willing to gamble and put it all in and doesnt give much credit to any bet....thats great...I just have to trap him or just have a hand and in the long run i will have the best of it"
This was my argument in my previous posts: How long is the LONG RUN? I realise this could very well be till you stop breathing; but how are you suppose to analyse or differentiate mistakes from bad beats?
I went from depositing $565 to $840 in 2 weeks playing 1/2 FL and down to $377 for the next 2 months or so. With all these bad beats, I am losing slowly. Every deposit bonus earned is lost with interest. I have taken small breaks to make changes, re-read some books on the mental aspects from all the bad beats.
I looked up ChrisJP for his efforts on the 0 to 10k challenge but could only find his three rules on BR strategy. It doesn't expand on which games he played and how often? Whether Limit was an option to grind at the micro limits. I do prefer limit. I am currently trying to stick to his specifications of 5% of BR for ring.
Any suggestions?

[Damien]

how are you suppose to analyse or differentiate mistakes from bad beats?

Hey Aspie. Well, you must realize that at least the two examples that you wrote about were not mistakes. Anytime you get AI and your equity in the hand is higher than your opponents is not a mistake. The thing that i think has really helped a lot of people with their game on this forum is posting hand examples. No need to post the ones that you wrote of above, those are obviously bad beats. But post the ones that really made you scratch your head. Could be any number of leaks in your game that you have the potential to plug. Oh, and don't limit yourself to just posting hands that you lost. A lot of times posting winning hands helps also. It could be that you're not getting enough value out of your big hands, or conversely, you played your hand too strongly and just got lucky. In any event, I hope it get better for you!