ITH Poker Forum

[nsidestrate]

In one hand, two guys will get it all in pre-flop where one guy has ATo and the other guy has QJs and they will say what a great read it was by the AT to get it in good there and how unlucky he was when the QJs sucked out on him. In another hand one guy will get it in with 88 against AT and they will express no surprise when AT gets there and call it a simple coin flip and you know how those coin flips go.

Except 88 was a bigger favorite against AT than AT was against QJs!

Don't even get me started on them calling QQ vs AK a coin flip. 57/43 is a lot closer to 60/40 than it is to a flip. Despite all this, I enjoyed watching the live coverage last night. Ben Lamb is a great player.

[the_hawk]

Don't even get me started on them calling QQ vs AK a coin flip.

And then calling it an "outrageous suckout" when they river the ace after being AIPF?

[chrisjp]

I enjoyed the coverage too. I must say that Heinz has them scratching their heads. Lamb and Giannetti both folded pretty decent hands to Pius' aggression, although I'm not saying it was wrong.

One thing I've learned from this broadcast and the ones last July is that great players put a great deal of stock in their ability to read the weakness or strength of others. It's not really a range they put the opponents on, it's just a general feel. That's definitely a weakness in my game against aggro good players. Against typical weak tight or poor players I'm fine, but not against these types.

I thought Phil's comment about Staszko's call with Q2 v Giannetti's QT was wrong. I thought with the pot odds it was a good call. I wasn't paying enough attention, but wasn't he getting at least 2-1? Plus it was only a small dent in his stack. Against Giannetti's range it's got to be a good call

Chris

[philhux]

I really liked how the Czech played (apart from the limp with 56o), he seemed quite card dead but just kept it solid to ladder up. I and I think many others underestimated him.

What do people think of Collins' strategy of limping tonnes of hands like mid/high suited connectors and then later JJ? Is this how he normally plays or has he changed his play for November. Reminds me of when Shulman started 5xing at the final table. Is three months off too much time so you can overthink things?

[nsidestrate]

I thought Phil's comment about Staszko's call with Q2 v Giannetti's QT was wrong. I thought with the pot odds it was a good call. I wasn't paying enough attention, but wasn't he getting at least 2-1? Plus it was only a small dent in his stack. Against Giannetti's range it's got to be a good call

Well, we know that Phil sucks at the math in these sort of situations. Gianetti shoved for 6.72 million and the pot contained 2.6 million dead money. So Staszko had to call 5.5 million to win 9.3 million. Not quite 2-1, but pretty close. Something like Q7 is probably a pretty clear call, maybe not all the way down to Q2, but it isn't far off, surely.

[nsidestrate]

I really liked how the Czech played (apart from the limp with 56o), he seemed quite card dead but just kept it solid to ladder up. I and I think many others underestimated him.

I actually thought all the of the final four players played strong poker. If Giannetti didn't lose that painful hand to Lamb, he'd be someone we would all cite for good play. I just loved the way Heinz and Lamb applied pressure constantly.

What do people think of Collins' strategy of limping tonnes of hands like mid/high suited connectors and then later JJ? Is this how he normally plays or has he changed his play for November. Reminds me of when Shulman started 5xing at the final table. Is three months off too much time so you can overthink things?

Antonio talked about this some. I think this was a mistake, personally. I understand it, though. Both Heinz and Lamb were three betting like crazy and that is one way to adjust to it. It also probably shocked a few people. Unfortunately, I think at this level all of the players have a pretty good idea how to adjust.

[chrisjp]

I thought Phil's comment about Staszko's call with Q2 v Giannetti's QT was wrong. I thought with the pot odds it was a good call. I wasn't paying enough attention, but wasn't he getting at least 2-1? Plus it was only a small dent in his stack. Against Giannetti's range it's got to be a good call

Well, we know that Phil sucks at the math in these sort of situations. Gianetti shoved for 6.72 million and the pot contained 2.6 million dead money. So Staszko had to call 5.5 million to win 9.3 million. Not quite 2-1, but pretty close. Something like Q7 is probably a pretty clear call, maybe not all the way down to Q2, but it isn't far off, surely.

OK getting 1.7-1 is dicey with Q2o. Not terrible, but wrong I think. Q7o is about right. Depends on the range you put him on. He might be quite light pushing over 50% of the hands. Some of these guys after taking a beat like Giannetti did just shove Any 2.

Chris