ITH Poker Forum

[Harley54]

I'm sick and tired of collusion and intentional disconnects on Party Poker. Today, I'm in a NL Sit and Go. I'm average in chips. I get AA. I raise it up pre-flop and get 2 callers.

Flop comes Q-9-9.

After the flop early position bets, I raise all in. The guy behind me types in the chat window, "Early Postion, you going to call him?"

The other guy says, "No, I've only got KQ, too risky"

"Whew, I've got AQ, wanted to call, but one less 'out'" (These quotes are almost verbatim.)

Then the late guy folds, and the early position folds.

I reported this, along with the hand history, to the floorperson. But they don't seem to care too much. I emailed PartyPoker demanding a refund. We'll see what happens.

[mchilger]

Using chat is a blatant offense of cheating. They should refund your money and ban those two players. Let us know what you hear back. MCH

[Harley54]

The floorperson told me that they will not refund my money because they didn't have a technical failure on their end. So, I'm emailing them, hoping to get someone higher up.

The other day my buddy was in a $10/$20 game on party poker. He's holding QQ on a capped pre flop. Flop comes QQA. It gets capped again, (He figures AA.) Flop comes a 9 river a 4, no flush possibilities. He knows for sure he's holding the pure and absolute nuts. The pots have been capping the whole way. However, on the river, he finally goes to call the bet, he claims he's clicking like mad. Nothing on the screen. Eventually the clock winds down and it folds him. He went to the floorperson complaining and they claimed there was no malfunction on their end. They say he timed out and therefore his hand was folded. Oh well, he's still trying to get refunded his money or the pot (ended up being in the $400 range I believe) I believe he's got a strong case using the hand history) Why would he all of a sudden after raising the whole way go "oh jeesh, the nuts might lose."

[duggie]

I think you have to be very careful when making allegations of this nature.
The first instance for example is not collusion in the sense I understand it, i.e. players communicating secretly with each other, but misuse of the chat feature. The poker sites do need to do a better job conveying the ettiquette
of poker, and take swift and strong action when it is breached. It seems to me many players both online and in cardrooms don't realize you DO NOT talk about the content of your hand until after the hand has finished.

In the second example who are you accusing of doing what? Why would the cardroom intentionally disconnect a player? Do you have access to the hand history to post here?

Allegations of cheating are extremly serious. Be sure you can establish motive and opportunity and provide the evidence to substantiate the claim.

[Harley54]

Second example was highlighting that PartyPoker's customer service isn't really caring about the players that well.

I don't have the hand history, but viewed it at his house. He's capping every pot, but decides to time out and fold on the last raise? I don't think so.

Now, misuse of the chat feature is cheating. These players used information from each other to decide whether or not to call my raise. If that happened it a live tourney a pentalty would be issued. One example I know of is not permitting a player to play a hand for 20 minutes while the tourney plays on.

[duggie]

I agree with your comments on the misuse of the chat feature.
As for your friends experience, you called it an "intentional disconnect". Why an earth would they do that, and even if they did, doesnt a disconnect during a hand put you all in for your share of the pot up to that time?
It is possible your friend may have accidentally made some error in his excitement, clicked on the wrong part of the screen or the fold button or pressed the wrong part of the mouse on any of a number of things that would have caused the time out. In the abscence of any evidence of wrongdoing by the poker site just what are they supposed to do?

[Harley54]

I didn't mean he did an intentional disconnect. Only reason I believe his story is his roommate who plays online often backs it up. They were in the same office on two computers playing. Says he was hitting "Call" like a monster, but the timer just counted down and folded his hand.

The only comparison to my situation is that Partypoker denied responsibilty due to no "technical failure" on their end. I believe they did have a technical failure during his situation, but won't admit it.

[robrobrob]

Was your friend using the download version or playing from a web browser?

The download version behaves as you describe a lot.

rob

[halashton]

The card rooms treat a no response different then an disconnect. A timeout or no response is an automatic fold. While a disconnect is treated as all in. I had a friend who was had a timeout happen Pacific Poker when he was holding the nuts (ace high flush) and raising every chance he had. It took a few phone calls to their support but they finally awarded him very close to the pot amount and he was satisifed. He did have to work very hard to get it but his persistance payed off.

[mchilger]

Technical problems occur all the time in Internet poker, from both the poker site and from the players. These technical problems are not intentional, but nevertheless a part of the game. It is important that the poker sites take technical issues very seriously and respond in a timely manner. They also need to be objective and evaluate situations outside of a closed box.

In this case, it seems obvious to me that no one would fold four queen's. Even if it appears that the technical problem was not caused by the poker site, they should be open to refunding this player's money in such an obvious situation in my opinion.

It is in the best interest of poker sites to protect their players through allin protection, stable software, and by open and timely customer support.

The chat thing is another issue altogether, as chatting about another player's hand or potential play during a hand is against poker rules.

MCH

[duggie]

Further to Halashton's observation, I think there was a change of policy at some point changing timeouts from an "all in" to a "fold", probably due to abuse. If timeouts due to technical problems are as common as has been suggested this policy seems overly harsh. It should be easy from the hand histories and frequency of occurence to separate the abusers from the unfortunates. It might take more manpower, but would prevent the disastrous situations that have been described here, and keep the honest players happy.

[swiggy3636]

...

[niin]

Talking about hand in progress is definitely not just 'inappropriate', it's collusion plain and simple. Collusion doesn't necessarily imply intent premeditation, but it's still collusion.

There is a huge difference between table talk ('You can't call me, I have aces.") and what happened here.

[the_hawk]

I'm amazed that you guys dont understand the concept of life...table talk happens...its not "illegal" its just inappropriate...learn not to play with them again instead of bitching to an internet service that has no feasible way of regulating such short of removing chat completely

Welcome to the forum swiggy. I can't be bothered to go and look but I think you will find if you consult the rules of Party, or of any other major site, you will find that "table talk" as described in the OP is against the rules, period.

[MrSmith]

normally I'd nominate this thread for gravedig-of-the-year ... but lately we'we seen loads of long dead threads walk the earth.

great dig though, i wonder what happened to his cash?