ITH Poker Forum

[Piscivorous]

1) If you play this any other way with that board, you are playing too tight...probably playing tournies that are too big for your bankroll.

2) With that hand and that board, I am thrilled to get all in on the turn, even with three opponents having pushed before me.

3) If you are afraid of getting sucked out by Axh , QJ or 99, see point #1.

I agree completely. I push right here no matter the circumstance. There is a huge difference in pushing here with the nuts and one card to come than say folding AA preflop when three are all-in and either of the two getting bounced will guarantee better money, final table or satellite play into a bigger MTT.

And yes, I have folded AA in an MTT. I managed to get on the final table, and place third. Had I called, I'd have lost when KK bigstack hit a K on the flop.

Had I never read a Pokerpages article by Caro where he gave thi sexact case for folding AA preflop, I would have finished 11th. Still in the money, but nowhere near 3rd place money.

[Icall]

And yes, I have folded AA in an MTT. I managed to get on the final table, and place third. Had I called, I'd have lost when KK bigstack hit a K on the flop.

Sounds like you made a bad fold.

[Piscivorous]

And yes, I have folded AA in an MTT. I managed to get on the final table, and place third. Had I called, I'd have lost when KK bigstack hit a K on the flop.

Sounds like you made a bad fold.

Say what you want. I made the right choice. One or the other, or both, loses to the bigstack and I'm guaranteed the final table and a bigger payday. AA up against 3 others, two of which are all-in already isn't worth playing in this situation as I am completely at a loss with regards to fold-equity and am at the mercy of the board. Even if I managed to be a 50% favorite against three hands, any loss would finish me at 11th. A win would put me on the final table with 7th sized chipstack with 9 or ten left.

As it was I was on the final table of 9, with the 9th sized stack, but with around 21BB, and in no serious danger.

[Bullajami]

And yes, I have folded AA in an MTT.

Say what you want.

OK.

You don't have a hair on your bald ass for making that fold.

You should go play dress-up and have a tea party.

Girlie-boy.

[Piscivorous]

You don't have a hair on your bald ass for making that fold.

You should go play dress-up and have a tea party.

Girlie-boy.

Bald asses? Dresses? Need I remind you I was never in the Navy?

[Bullajami]

You don't have a hair on your bald ass for making that fold.

You should go play dress-up and have a tea party.

Girlie-boy.

Bald asses? Dresses? Need I remind you I was never in the Navy?

I heard you the first time, grunt.

[jeffnc]

You're talking about how much I have invested, and the odds of being outdrawn. I don't really understand the question. What difference do those things make? Of course you will call in. You'd go all-in yourself if it weren't for the fact that you'd be afraid you wouldn't get enough callers! Your opponents doing this for you is a dream scenario.

[SteveGriff]

I love this place

Steve Griff

[jeffnc]

I just thought the question might be somewhat interesting.. seeing if there is a time when you migth fold something liek this in a multiway pot with so many draws able to beat you..

How could there be so many draws you'd fold? Let's say you had 5 opponents, and they had

1) 23
2) J8
3) KK
4) 5h4h
5) JJ

So any A, Q, 7, 6, K, J or heart, and you lose (you might still redraw, but the guy with 5h 4h is hurting you.) That's about as bad as it gets, isn't it?
Still, that's only 22 cards that beat you. You're 50/50 to win, and you're getting 5:1 on your all-in. How can you pass this up?

[jeffnc]

And yes, I have folded AA in an MTT. I managed to get on the final table, and place third. Had I called, I'd have lost when KK bigstack hit a K on the flop.

Sounds like you made a bad fold.

Say what you want. I made the right choice.

Umm, I'm not sure how we're getting down this tangent. You're using hindsight on the cards that flopped to decide you made the right choice? Sounds to me like your move was -EV.

As it was I was on the final table of 9, with the 9th sized stack, but with around 21BB, and in no serious danger.

But you weren't seriously in first place either. You had a great opportunity to make exponentially more money for the risk. Yes you guaranteed finishing "in the money" but you hurt your chances to finish higher in the money. The fact that you finished third in hindsight isn't relevant because you were only in 9th after this play. The difference between 9th and "out of the money" is very small compared to the difference between 9th and 1st. You took basically a 1:1 shot at something like a 10:1 payoff. You get the payoff of tripling your stack (depending on the stacks of the other all in players) plus the probable exponential payoff of finishing higher.

[Piscivorous]

Umm, I'm not sure how we're getting down this tangent. You're using hindsight on the cards that flopped to decide you made the right choice? Sounds to me like your move was -EV.

Umm, no, you're putting words in my mouth. I wasn't and still am not looking at this through hindsight. Difference between 11th [$240] and 9th [$560], for an, at the time, $.50/$1 player was a big difference, and a motivating factor. When I satellited myself onto Party's $200K guaranteed, if I had been in this situation where the real money difference between 11th and 9th was a few thousand, I'd make the same move.

But you weren't seriously in first place either. You had a great opportunity to make exponentially more money for the risk. Yes you guaranteed finishing "in the money" but you hurt your chances to finish higher in the money. The fact that you finished third in hindsight isn't relevant because you were only in 9th after this play. The difference between 9th and "out of the money" is very small compared to the difference between 9th and 1st. You took basically a 1:1 shot at something like a 10:1 payoff. You get the payoff of tripling your stack (depending on the stacks of the other all in players) plus the probable exponential payoff of finishing higher.

And I wasn't going to be seriously in 6th either if I won this hand.

Caro made a case for folding AA in an MTT. His theory and the one I followed in this MTT, was basically that if one is in a situation where they have to call two or more all-ins and by folding the can move up significant monied places, whereas the money made a difference, than folding AA in that position wouldn't be a mistake.

Extrapolating it in my situation [the only time I folded AA preflop], meant allowing me to play $1/$2 instead of $.50/$1. As it shook out, the third place money actually ended up bankrolling me for $2/$4, which, in hindsight was irrelevant. The fact of the matter was, the 9th place money was enough for the boost.

I completely understand where everyone is coming from. Folding AA isn't an endeavor to be taken lightly. As this happened way back when I was a neophyte, it had it's own set of reasoning. Having taken the leap into poker as a career, and I'm predominantly a cash game player, if the difference in money were significant, I might do the same again, unless money already guaranteed is already significant.

I don't expect you to understand my reasoning for doing it.